S2, E19: Rick Steves Aims to Change the World, One Journey at a Time

Rick Steves is a well-known figure in the travel industry. Since founding his company in 1976, he has taken millions of Americans on adventures, whether through guided tours or his numerous guidebooks. However, his mission—to inspire travel across the globe—comes with environmental implications. This week’s episode of Unpacked begins a two-part series that explores his commitment to the climate and his intriguing perspective on seeing the world as a classroom.

Transcript

Aislyn Greene, host: I’m Aislyn Greene, and this is Unpacked, the podcast that dives into a complex travel topic each week. This week, we're discussing climate change, travel, and much more with the legendary Rick Steves. You probably know him well; he’s been a prominent figure for decades, beloved by many, and has his own podcast, Travel with Rick Steves.

Interestingly, I grew up with Rick Steves. Hailing from Washington State, not far from his Edmonds headquarters, my grandparents—avid travelers—were fans of his from the very start. We had Rick Steves backpacks, money belts, and yes, his guidebooks. As a child, I took him for granted, thinking of him merely as the ‘Europe guy’ who provided my money belt. However, as an adult traveler, I’ve come to view Rick as an activist, a curious scholar, and a motivator who inspires people to step beyond their comfort zones and embrace the world. He’s also deeply committed to environmental issues, seeking ways to balance his travel advocacy with the challenges posed by climate change. It’s a complex topic.

He joined the show to discuss his Climate Smart Commitment, which acts as a personal carbon tax. For each traveler his company sends to Europe, they contribute $30 to a selection of thoughtfully chosen nonprofits. We'll dive deeper into this program in next week's episode, but for now, let’s hear from Rick. Our discussion covered a wide array of topics, including climate change, air travel, dual-narrative journeys, borders, and much more. Let’s tune in.

Aislyn: Rick, it's great to have you on Unpacked.

Rick Steves: Thanks for having me.

Aislyn: Today, we’re unpacking the intersection of climate change and travel, a subject that's particularly significant to us at Dinogo. We've dedicated considerable time to exploring it, and I know you have too. When we chat with Craig Davidson, your COO, we'll learn more about your Climate Smart Commitment.

For now, I’d like to delve into the personal aspect of this topic, as I truly appreciate your principled view of the world. What makes climate change so crucial to you?

Rick: Well, it's crucial for everyone, or at least it should be. Some people are aware of it, while others are not. Whether you're involved in travel or not, it should matter. I believe we're gradually awakening to this reality, but it’s time to sound the alarm and motivate people to take action.

Being in the travel industry, this is the major issue we face. We all share a passion for travel and love exploring the world. While we consider ourselves environmentalists, our business model relies on taking people on trips, which means we're part of the problem.

We need to determine what ethical travel looks like in a world that is warming.

Aislyn: What thought process led you to establish this concrete program?

Rick: We've been searching for a way to be an ethical tour operator for over a decade. We've experimented with various approaches. For a while, we were investing in tree planting. We learned that for just two dollars per tree, buying six trees could offset the carbon emissions from a round trip flight to Europe.

Well, if you take a hundred people, that means we’re talking about 600 trees, and it seems simple enough. However, that approach felt a bit too convenient. Many corporations in the developed world simply purchase carbon offsets, and while we explored that option, I didn’t like the idea of going through a broker and funneling money into affluent companies. I wanted to make a meaningful connection with the developing world. I believe climate change poses a significant threat, not just to tourism but to our entire way of life and civilization itself. From a broader perspective, perhaps humanity is merely a blemish on this planet, and it might be time for us to step aside.

We’re making progress, but I prefer not to frame it that way. I see this stunning planet we inhabit as something we should care for responsibly. I long for a way to transparently and reliably offset our carbon footprint, and that’s the goal we’re pursuing.

There’s no question that we contribute to climate change, and it’s real. It must be addressed sooner rather than later. However, travel holds significant value beyond just leisure. While I cherish a good vacation, over the years, I’ve found myself blending the roles of a tourist, traveler, and pilgrim. Stepping out into the world allows for greater understanding, fostering love and empathy for the 96 percent of humanity that exists beyond our borders.

Emerging from COVID, I firmly believe that the challenges ahead will disregard borders and traditional weapons. They will necessitate environmental respect and international collaboration. Whether it’s a pandemic or climate change, the solutions cannot be about winners and losers; they must be win-win. If one side thrives while another suffers, the repercussions will inevitably cross borders, leaving us all vulnerable. We must approach these issues wisely, fostering a global community through travel. In essence, travel is crucial for our sustainability on this planet.

We need to build connections with one another. The current trend seems to be erecting walls and viewing everyone as a potential threat, which is a recipe for future problems. The true beauty of travel lies in the invaluable mindset you bring home, one that encourages bridge-building rather than wall-building.

Travel brings immense benefits, and I view it as a stewardship responsibility. If you're dedicating time and energy to travel—especially considering its environmental impact—you must ensure your journeys are meaningful. Why do millions of Muslims strive to visit Mecca at least once in their lives?

It’s vital to step outside your familiar surroundings and explore the wider world. That’s the essence of Mohamed’s teachings: “Don’t brag about your education; show me your travels.” Progressive Muslims suggest that it’s not about going to Mecca but rather about taking a trip to reflect on life away from home.

I resonate with the idea of seeing the “road as church” or “road as school.” We gain deeper insights about our own lives by venturing beyond our familiar territory. Therefore, we must make the most of our travels by being mindful and responsible, including covering our carbon footprint. If you don’t believe in mitigation, you might want to disregard my perspective, but for me, mitigation is simply a matter of calculations.

You produce X amount of harm, right? You can either avoid creating that harm or generate X amount of benefit to counterbalance it. That’s essentially what mitigation means.

I trust the scientific studies I’ve encountered, which indicate that a smart investment of $30 in climate action can generate as much positive impact as the carbon footprint of one individual flying round-trip from the United States to Europe.

Our Climate Smart Commitment isn’t something to boast about; it’s simply about basic ethics. With the substantial profits from our tour operations, particularly when we take 20,000 to 30,000 travelers to Europe each year, we must account for the environmental costs, which is roughly $30 wisely invested for each person.

Honestly, if our country had a transparent accounting system, we would face taxes for this impact, and those funds would be effectively reinvested, as this expense affects society, the future, and the planet due to our contributions to climate change.

However, in the U.S., the focus is heavily on quarterly profits. Therefore, we impose our own tax to cover our carbon impact, and that’s precisely what we’re doing.

Each year, we calculate the number of participants in our tours and multiply that by $30. For example, this year we’re hosting 30,000 travelers on Rick Steves’s tours. That amounts to $900,000, which we round up to a million. We collaborate with 10 nonprofits that support farmers in developing countries to help them operate more sustainably while reducing their climate impact. We invest an average of $100,000 in each of these organizations. We’re proud of this initiative, as it reflects a growing awareness of how to travel responsibly in a warming world.

Aislyn: Absolutely. The flight shame movement started gaining traction in 2017, really picking up speed in 2019 when activist Greta Thunberg famously chose to sail rather than fly.

Rick: Exactly.

Aislyn: How did you initially react to that? Did it inspire any new thoughts for you?

Rick: To me, flight shame isn't about opting for a boat; it's about choosing not to travel at all. While that’s a valid choice, it's not always practical for everyone to travel by boat. I tend to be more realistic about these things. Choosing not to travel can be a reasonable decision.

However, I believe that if you do travel and actively offset your carbon footprint, it helps you become a global citizen. I've been grappling with the ethics of travel long before climate change became a major issue. For 40 years, I’ve been teaching and wrestling with these concepts since the last century.

The ethical dilemma I faced was about spending five years’ worth of income for a family in need just to visit places like the Nile, India, or Guatemala to take pictures of picturesque scenes, such as women carrying jugs. While it's easy to romanticize these images, I am acutely aware of the economic injustices present in our world, and I was questioning the ethics of travel even before climate change entered the conversation.

After engaging in conversations and reflecting deeply, I've come to realize that if you aspire to be an ethical traveler, you bear an ethical responsibility. Traveling should broaden your perspective, which you can then apply in the voting booth. The outcomes of our elections have profound effects on those south of the border, perhaps even more so than on us. It's strange to approach voting with anything less than a collective mindset, considering the larger picture beyond self-interest.

Aislyn: Absolutely.

Rick: An enlightened traveler does exactly that. I regularly support causes and candidates that may not directly benefit me, motivated by my experiences around the globe and a thoughtful approach to the world.

Aislyn: Your organizations are also involved in lobbying the U.S. government, correct?

Rick: I strongly believe in advocacy. While advocacy groups often shy away from the term 'lobbyist,' that's precisely what they are. Lobbying isn't inherently negative; it can be a means to promote smarter, more compassionate policies. This includes addressing domestic and international hunger, or even advocating for a carbon tax. My primary philanthropic focus is supporting advocacy groups that combat hunger, as 10 percent of the world's population struggles to survive on less than $2 a day.

That’s a disheartening reality. My belief is that even if you're not particularly inclined to 'love thy neighbor,' if you care about your own well-being, being extremely wealthy in a country riddled with poverty isn't ideal. It’s not a safe environment for raising children. If you desire stability, combating hunger is essential. Moreover, we will soon realize that to achieve stability, tackling climate change is equally critical.

We often panic over immigration issues, but we have yet to truly grasp the immigration crisis that will unfold as climate change creates millions of refugees. The few who are seeking entry into our country now are just the beginning of a much larger wave of climate refugees on the horizon.

Many are struggling to survive on their land, moving to cities that pose significant dangers, ultimately realizing that their only option is to head north to the United States. This consequence of climate change is often overlooked. It’s a complex situation, yet I believe that by increasing awareness and approaching it intelligently, we can find a viable solution.

However, we must take serious action to reduce our carbon footprint and compensate for the emissions we generate. Change is on the way, particularly in Europe, where there's a growing trend of choosing trains over flights. With an efficient rail system, it simply doesn't make sense to fly from Madrid to Barcelona when a train can get you there in just two and a half hours. You don’t need to be an environmentalist to appreciate that—it’s just common sense.

Aislyn: And it's also a more enjoyable experience, right?

Rick: It’s such a pleasure! I love boarding the train, taking in the scenery, and arriving without the hassle of airports. Plus, it’s an eco-friendly option. For instance, when an American visits Spain and sees the efficiency of their public transit and the alternatives to fossil fuels, they return home with a fresh perspective that can influence political change and help drive progress.

Aislyn: Exactly! If only we had a train system like that. Returning to the topic of mitigation, we've also faced challenges here. We recently did a story about a climate reporter who is aiming to reduce their flying, not eliminating it completely, but minimizing it. We're encouraging more thoughtful travel—staying longer when you go somewhere. Do you promote that with your travelers too?

Rick: Absolutely! I think it's essential to apply that mindset to everyday decisions. Does it really make sense for 50,000 people to fly back to their old school for a football game? The environmental impact of such travel for sports is significant. The same goes for the consequences of unnecessary wars.

Moreover, consider the environmental toll of flying to conventions. For years, we brought 100 of our tour guides from Europe to Seattle every January for a week-long workshop. But during the pandemic, we learned to use webinars instead. While I miss the personal touch, we’ve realized that such gatherings don’t need to happen annually—moderation is key.

I invest considerable effort into pondering how, in our divided society, we can avoid just politically defeating the opposition and instead find sensible solutions that everyone can agree on.

I know the aeronautics industry is making strides toward more efficient airplanes, which holds great promise. We can implement solutions that reduce both environmental and economic costs. For example, flying 100 guides to Seattle for a week was quite expensive. Now, with webinars, I happily pay for my Zoom license—it’s a fantastic alternative to bringing everyone here.

There are definitely ways to lower the carbon footprint of our travels, whether for work, leisure, or global exploration. And once we arrive, we can adopt travel practices that minimize our carbon impact. Importantly, I believe our journeys should change us. I enjoy becoming a cultural chameleon as I travel, adapting to each country, and I return home transformed.

Aislyn: Absolutely. That brings to mind your discussions about dual-narrative travel. Could you explain what you mean by that for our listeners?

Rick: Dual-narrative travel is about venturing beyond my comfort zone. I’m not a daring adventurer, and I don’t seek out war zones, but I do visit places that are typically considered off-limits.

Reflecting on my best travel experiences, I recall my trips to the Soviet Union, Iran, Palestine, and Cuba. Those moments were invaluable—getting to know those who are often labeled as our adversaries. I say ‘adversaries’ in quotes, of course, as people often view them as such.

It's incredibly impactful. It highlights how ethnocentric our perspective can be on many of the world's significant issues. There are barriers, both physical and metaphorical, that we need to comprehend. While I struggle to find a positive example of a wall, it ultimately serves to separate people. Take, for instance, the wall between Palestine and Israel; it was erected by the Israelis to shield themselves from violent attacks by perceived threats from Palestine, which they feared would bomb their buses. This may be seen as a justified investment and fear on their part. It's a complex situation, but let's consider the consequences of that wall.

While it may have made it harder for those with harmful intentions to cross, the greater impact is that it has burdened young people on both sides with their parents' fears and unresolved issues, hindering communication. I discovered this while filming my TV show about the Holy Land.

My Israeli guide, Abi, and my Palestinian guide, Kamal, faced immense difficulty just finding a place to park their cars side by side so I could switch from one to the other. The entire system is structured to prevent Palestinians and Israelis from truly connecting with one another.

You might see a gardener crossing the wall to work at your affluent home for a low wage and then returning, but generally, people don't share meals together. Kids don’t play with one another; they live in their own gated communities or refugee camps, interacting only with those who carry similar parental burdens.

The lesson here is that you cannot truly understand a wall without engaging with people from both sides. This is what dual-narrative travel embodies. In Belfast, for instance, there are dual-narrative tours of the wall that divides the Protestant and Catholic communities. Instead of just a taxi ride with an irate Catholic or Protestant, you get a taxi with two different drivers: one for half the tour and the other for the second half. This approach vastly enhances your learning experience.

One of the wonderful aspects of travel, which I cherish as a travel educator, is the ability to motivate people to enjoy their journeys without overspending. It’s about doing things efficiently, avoiding unnecessary lines, knowing how to pack effectively, and so forth.

Additionally, I encourage traveling in a way that pushes you out of your comfort zone and broadens your perspective. Rather than seeing culture shock as something to evade, I view it as a beneficial experience. I've recently come to realize that culture shock represents the growing pains of expanding one’s worldview. It’s crucial, and it needs to be guided, which is my role as a tour guide.

Aislyn: I love that perspective. It also seems to shift the focus away from the traveler a bit, right? Like, you're not the center of the story, are you?

Rick: Absolutely! You hit the nail on the head. My favorite country is India, yet people often associate me with Europe. For me, Europe serves as a launching pad for exploring the world as an American. Once you've experienced that, you can venture further. But India holds my favorite travel memories because it challenges my ethnocentric views.

I like to say it rearranges my cultural furniture. Even those of us who consider ourselves globally minded are still ethnocentric at times. We tend to view our norms as standard; for example, using forks and spoons is not universal, nor is sitting on a toilet. We are the outliers, and we often don't realize this until we travel to places with different customs. It's important to have a thirst for such experiences.

Many people I encounter as a tour guide find this hard to accept. They often recoil and clench their fists, thinking, "Are you suggesting we're wrong? That we're not the epicenter of the world, that it's not structured like a pyramid with us at the top, and that others aren’t just trying to emulate the American way?"

Aislyn: How do you address that? What’s your response?

Rick: I respond by saying, "The world isn’t structured like a pyramid with us at the apex, though I believed it was until I reached adulthood." I recall meeting a man in Afghanistan during my hitchhiking journey there. I have many stories like this, but one stands out: I was at a cafeteria in Kabul when he sat down beside me.

He asked, "Are you American?" When I affirmed, he shared, "I’m a professor in Afghanistan, and I want you to understand that one-third of the world's population eats with forks and spoons like you, another third uses chopsticks, and the last third eats with their hands like me. We’re all civilized in our own ways."

I can vividly recall his words: "And we’re all civilized just the same." His goal was to sit at the tourist cafeteria each day at lunch, engaging with an American backpacker to convey that we’re all civilized regardless of our differences.

Aislyn: Absolutely. We can’t ignore discussions about climate change and wastefulness, especially with plastics and utensils ending up in landfills.

Rick: Isn’t it incredible? That’s why I find my work so fulfilling. After 25 years as a tour guide, I’ve had the mic and the opportunity to influence my audience with locked doors and, "You’re going to hear me out." Over the years, I realized how to wield that influence, but I also recognized the profound impact travel has as my travelers gradually expanded their perspectives through these experiences.

The measure of my success is how much influence I had on my travelers. Europe may seem straightforward for seasoned adventurers, yet it poses challenges for many. At Rick Steves Europe, where I work with 100 colleagues in Seattle, we joke that our mission is to empower Americans to explore beyond Orlando.

There’s nothing wrong with Orlando or Vegas, but if you’ve been there six or seven times, why not try Portugal? It won’t bite you! If it’s not to your liking, you can always retreat to Disney World.

However, there’s one guidebook that outsells my Rick Steves Italy guidebook, and that’s the guidebook for Disney World. It caters to a massive market of escape travel—an escape to La La Land. For many, that’s all they seek. I resonate with Thomas Jefferson’s quote: "Travel makes a person wiser, if less happy."

Aislyn: You talked about the journey from being a tourist to a traveler and then to a pilgrim. Do you think this process has reinforced your own growth as both a traveler and a travel educator?

Rick: Absolutely! It’s valuable to reflect thoughtfully on your experiences. Many people grow up without that introspective approach; they’re never encouraged to express themselves creatively. As a tour guide, I used to challenge my groups by declaring, “On the final day, we’ll all share a poem we’ve crafted over the course of the tour.”

Everyone was required to compose a poem. For some, it ended up being just a simple limerick, while others produced profound works that surprised even themselves, revealing their capacity to be thoughtful travelers. I often think about how the great poet Wordsworth would stroll through the stunning landscapes of the Lake District, inspired by the songs of birds, drifting clouds, and the gentle ripples on the water. We need that inspiration; it nourishes our souls—it's truly beautiful.

Aislyn: And expressing it, right? Capturing what it signifies.

Rick: Exactly!

Aislyn: I believe this can help solidify our experiences internally and enable us to bring those insights home.

Rick: That's a wonderful perspective. It elevates the role of a tour guide. I’ve always appreciated the quality of individuals who join our team. These guides embrace this philosophy, and if you're a tour guide, you're putting in significant effort, living on the road far from home, while constantly engaging with vacationers.

The work can simply be about making a living, or it can be about making a real difference. I feel fortunate to work alongside guides who share my mission; we have this incredible chance to gently push wonderful Americans out of their comfort zones and curate their experiences of culture shock.

Aislyn: Do you still ask them to write a poem at the end?

Rick: Not specifically, but we encourage our guides to foster a sense of camaraderie on the bus—a meaningful, family-like atmosphere. It’s easy for everyone to remain superficial and barely know each other's names, so we have what we call 'reflection periods.'

I cherish moments of reflection after visiting places like the Dachau concentration camp, enjoying a beer hall, and marveling at the stunning Wieskirche church nestled in the Alps. Then, as you settle into your lovely chalet in Austria, you spend an hour moderating a discussion. Here, the tour guide transitions from teacher to facilitator, encouraging those who feel comfortable to share their emotional journeys.

Orchestrating such discussions is incredibly fulfilling. It’s definitely a challenge and raises the expectations for what a tour guide can do. While many tour companies advise their guides to steer clear of religion, politics, and soccer to avoid conflicts, I encourage mine to tackle these topics respectfully, helping Americans broaden their perspectives.

The term "ugly American" may not be used as much anymore, but it refers to travelers who can be ethnocentric. This traveler might wonder, "Where's my ice water? Why isn't there endless coffee? I need quick service right now." They’re simply uninformed and on a steep learning curve. If someone lives deep in our country without a passport, shaped by their chosen TV channels, what kind of worldview do they have? Likely a very narrow one. Do they feel scared? Probably. Do they prefer walls over bridges? Most likely. In contrast, frequent travelers are less fearful and prefer connections. I love that.

Aislyn: Right, or they know what to be cautious about too, feeling that not traveling is the real fear, not broadening their worldview.

Rick: That’s a great observation. They recognize what the genuine risks are. The irony lies in the fact that those who desire walls think they offer safety. I believe that walls do not ensure safety; rather, they make your future more unstable.

Aislyn: Yes, definitely.

Rick: However, that requires a bit more focus from many people to contemplate. You know, it’s not something you can easily summarize on a bumper sticker.

Aislyn: And the value of direct experience, the time involved, right?

Rick: Exactly. Direct experience—what a notion! This really ties back to our discussion on travel. That firsthand experience is becoming increasingly vital.

Aislyn: Well, returning to climate change on a broader scale, you’ve had a unique perspective on the transformations happening across Europe and beyond. I’m curious about what you’ve observed.

Rick: Absolutely. You know, Aislyn, I've long wanted to create a TV show or travel essay highlighting the absurd effects of climate change on the privileged folks from developed countries during their vacations. It’s not just about the droughts in Guatemala affecting once-prosperous farmers; consider the skiers—there’s no more summer skiing in the Alps.

I remember the thrill of renting skis while traveling and enjoying summer skiing. That’s no longer possible. There are so many examples across Europe. For instance, in Spain, bullfights used to have tickets for sun or shade, with the cheaper ones in the sun. It’s become so hot that now all the bullfights are scheduled later in the day, and everything takes place in the shade.

Aislyn: Fascinating.

Rick: That’s just one way to adapt to climate change. I’m flying to Spain next week, and I’ve noticed they’ve installed canvas shade panels over the streets so pedestrians can walk without being scorched by the sun. That’s a new development. In southern England, you can now find flood barriers in small towns that have existed for centuries without needing them before.

These towns are now facing issues with sea levels washing up their main streets, necessitating flood defenses. The Dutch, known for their thriftiness, are investing billions in moving mud and sand to reinforce their dikes in preparation for rising sea levels. Half of the Netherlands lies below sea level, and there’s a storm surge barrier near Rotterdam that resembles two Eiffel Towers on their sides, which can roll shut when needed. We saw the devastation in New Orleans and New York due to storm surges; it could happen again, and every city will require storm surge defenses to withstand that. Additionally, there isn’t a ski lift in Europe these days that lacks built-in plumbing; you can't have a ski lift without plumbing since you need to make artificial snow.

Aislyn: Understood.

Rick: The river cruise industry is in turmoil, facing a crisis because water levels are either too high or too low, making it impossible to reach the destinations promised to travelers. As a result, they have to rely on buses, leading to half the itinerary being completed by bus instead of by boat on a so-called river cruise.

It’s quite troubling. While most people recognize climate change exists and acknowledge that humans play a role in it, the real question is whether we can invest now to benefit future generations in 10 or 20 years. Or do we prefer to push through life, enjoying our vacations without addressing the sustainability challenges?

This is why government intervention is essential. I support capitalism, but I understand that it requires oversight, which is the role of government. If we want capitalism to thrive in the coming generations, we need our government to step up now and enforce costly sustainability measures because humans inherently desire immediate gratification.

Aislyn: Absolutely.

Rick: It’s quite rare to find someone who can say, “I’ll forgo my own enjoyment today so that future generations can have a piece of it.”

Aislyn: Absolutely. I often hear from people, especially those with children or grandchildren. I remember your presentation in January—you mentioned not flying everyone in and brought up your young grandson, Atlas. By the way, great name! It’s truly wonderful.

Rick: Isn’t it just?

Aislyn: Right? It’s all about wanting him to experience the world and ensuring it’s a place he can thrive in.

Rick: When I give talks, especially those on political or ethical topics, I now conclude with a lovely photo of baby Atlas, my grandson. Then I share a picture of my daughter, Jackie, completely smitten with her little one, followed by an image of an anonymous father and infant in South Asia.

I emphasize that the love of that father is just as beautiful and vital as mine, and that child is equally deserving and significant. These realizations deeply resonate with travelers, especially when holding a grandchild; it reinforces the message in an undeniable way.

Aislyn: Absolutely.

Rick: Some might just want to erect more walls. However, I believe a thoughtful traveler, especially while cradling a grandchild, would lean towards building bridges instead of walls.

Aislyn: Yes, more bridges and more government initiatives.

Rick: Indeed, we need better regulation and sustainability. It’s clear to me: I invest a million dollars annually to offset the carbon footprint from travelers flying to Europe for our tours. That’s a million I could keep as profit, but I choose to act responsibly. I believe in taxing these emissions and reinvesting wisely. The outcomes from our Rick Steves’s Climate Smart initiative, supporting ten organizations in the developing world that assist farmers, are incredibly inspiring. It truly makes a difference. I hope more people will check out the detailed essay on our website explaining the rationale behind our initiative.

At the very top, it states, “If you’re a tour operator, feel free to adopt this program. No need to credit us. Just use it.” It’s really about innovation and, in my view, it’s a solid business practice. One of my guiding principles during COVID was realizing that good business practices align with ethical ones.

I appreciate that sentiment. You don’t have to sacrifice your profitability as a corporation to act ethically. If you can cultivate a client base that values your ethics, that’s a great clientele to have.

Aislyn: Absolutely. I admire how you transparently share the impact of these programs. Connecting the personal aspects to the broader issue can resonate more with people than just the overwhelming threat of climate change.

Rick: I believe there’s a strong desire for honesty and openness. People want straightforward and respectful discussions about how we can collaboratively address this challenge.

From a marketing perspective, I find it fulfilling. It seems people appreciate being told the unvarnished truth.

Aislyn: You touched on this earlier, but throughout your career, you’ve encouraged people to travel. Does that bring a sense of responsibility regarding some of these issues? Or have you found a way to come to terms with it, considering everything you’ve shared in the past hour?

Rick: I grapple with it, though not constantly. It’s a significant issue, and while I don’t lose sleep over it, it does frustrate me that there isn’t a sort of Better Housekeeping seal—some government-recognized method to accurately calculate and pay for your carbon footprint. We read various reports, but maybe there isn’t a clear-cut solution. I wish the government could provide a trustworthy guideline: “Here’s how much it costs to offset your carbon, and here’s what you can do.”

But it must be credible. My local frustrations with conventional approaches stem from brokers selling carbon offsets. They may claim environmental motives, but ultimately, they’re just earning commissions on sales.

It’s tough to feel like those solutions are genuinely credible. If there were a widely accepted and straightforward way to determine our carbon costs and how to mitigate them, it would be fantastic. We’re striving for that now, but we also need to feel empowered to do good by bringing home that most beautiful souvenir, which is part of a broader perspective.

Aislyn: Well expressed. Thank you for your time today. I truly appreciate your sense of responsibility and transparency.

Rick: Thank you, Aislyn. I truly appreciate an interview that challenges me to articulate the thoughts I’ve been wrestling with in a more coherent way. Often, I emerge from these discussions with a deeper understanding of my own perspectives than when I entered. So, I’m grateful for your efforts in raising awareness about this critical issue.

Aislyn: All hail the great Rick! Thank you for your time and insights, Rick. If you’re interested in learning more about the Climate Smart Commitment, be sure to join us next week when we speak with Craig Davidson, the chief operating officer of Rick Steves Europe. We’ll delve into the careful selection process for the nonprofits they support, focusing on projects related to farming and education for women and girls. We’ll also discuss the ongoing questions they grapple with regarding climate change and travel. It promises to be an engaging conversation, so don’t miss it! Meanwhile, you can find more information at ricksteves.com and subscribe to his podcast, Travel with Rick Steves. Our show notes will also include links to our articles about carbon offset programs, reducing flight frequency, and other climate-related topics. See you next week!