S2, E33: How Being a Person with Dwarfism Has Never Held Me Back From Exploring the World

Born with dwarfism, Christophe Zajac-Denek was always inspired by his parents, who were avid travelers. His mother encouraged him to explore the world, no matter the challenges. This week on Unpacked, Christophe tells the story of his journey.

Transcript

Christophe Zajac-Denek’s mother: What did you see in the cockpit?

Christophe Zajac-Denek, age 2: Men, men. Men.

Christophe’s mother: And what else? What were they doing?

Christophe: They were flying the plane.

Christophe’s mother: Mm-hmm.

Christophe: Mom, I’m the one flying the plane.

Christophe’s mother: Are you going to become a pilot?

Christophe: Yep.

Christophe’s mother: And what will you do when you become a pilot?

Christophe: I’ll just fly the plane.

Christophe’s mother: Very good.

Aislyn Greene, host: That charming clip features today’s guest. It was around 1980, and they were just two years old, traveling with their mom.

I’m Aislyn Greene, and you’re listening to Unpacked, the podcast where we dive into a new travel topic each week. This time, we’re hearing from Christophe Zajac-Denek, the little boy you heard earlier in the episode.

Christophe is an experienced traveler and the host of the podcast I’m Kind of a Big Deal. He also has a unique view of the world, standing at just four feet, four inches tall.

Today, he sits down with our producer, Nikki Galteland—who’s making her Unpacked debut—to talk about his passion for travel and surfing, his adventurous mom, and how having dwarfism has never stopped him from exploring the world.

Welcome, Nikki! It’s so exciting to finally have you here, in the spotlight!

Nikki Galteland, producer: Yes! I’m thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

Aislyn: I’m curious—how did you and Christophe meet? From the sound of it, you two are friends.

Nikki: Christophe was actually one of the first people I met when I moved to LA. I went to this meetup, just a casual hangout with some radio and audio producers. He was there, so friendly and welcoming, and had so many fascinating stories. We just clicked right away.

Aislyn: That’s great. What was it about his story—or stories—that stood out to you?

Nikki: I think it was the sheer variety. Every time I met him, it felt like I uncovered a new chapter of his life, full of incredible experiences. He seemed like someone with a real passion for meeting new people and trying new things.

Aislyn: And as we’ll hear in this episode, much of that adventurous spirit can be attributed to his parents, especially his mom, right?

Nikki: Absolutely. It was so much fun just chatting with him for today’s episode and discovering how much he traveled as a kid.

Aislyn: I love that we’re going to hear these little glimpses of his travels at different points.

Nikki: Honestly, it was tough choosing which clips to use. We’ve got hours of tape with tiny little Christophe.

Aislyn: That’s the best! Especially at that time, I’m like, ‘Go, mom!’

Nikki: Right? I’m so impressed. My audio heart is thrilled—‘Yes! Let’s preserve that tape!’

Aislyn: He’s not only an avid traveler but also a very accomplished individual. Could you share a bit more about him and his life, what he does?

Nikki: Absolutely. He’s the host of the podcast I’m Kind of a Big Deal, where he interviews others with dwarfism. It’s a great show. He produces it all on his own, and it sounds fantastic, which is super impressive. He’s also a professional actor and travels all over for that. Oh, and he used to be a stuntman, which is pretty amazing.

And that’s just the beginning! Every time I talk to him, I learn something new. For instance, he’s a professional surfer, and he just had two films featured at the Santa Barbara Surf Film Festival. One is about his own story, and the other is a film he edited.

It’s just incredible. He was also a rock drummer who toured with a band—so many different careers, all of them artistic and exciting.

Aislyn: He’s done more in his life than most of us can even dream of.

Nikki: It’s amazing how he seamlessly moves from one role to the next. He’s got such an adventurous spirit, I feel like he’s just built for that kind of life.

Nikki [in interview]: Christophe Zajac-Denek, you’re an actor, surfer, drummer, advocate, podcast host, and a beloved figure in the radio world. Welcome!

Christophe: Thank you so much! It’s a true pleasure to be here. I’m really excited to be part of this episode with you.

Nikki: Since this is a travel podcast, let’s start by hearing how you developed your love for travel. I know you’ve had quite a bit of experience with it.

Christophe: My love for travel really started with my parents. They took me on trips from a very young age. Plus, travel became essential for me as a child, especially when I was two. I’m a little person, standing at four feet four inches, and when I was born in 1979, there was very little information on dwarfism or how to care for it.

I’m originally from Detroit, Michigan, and when I was two, my parents found a specialist in Baltimore, Maryland. So, twice a year, we’d drive from Detroit to Baltimore. It was a long trip, but it became a routine for us.

Nikki: How did your parents make those trips enjoyable? I imagine a trip to see doctors in Baltimore might not have been the most thrilling for a young kid.

Christophe: Oh, it wasn’t all bad. We made it fun. I remember SeaWorld in Sandusky, Ohio, being one of the highlights. I was obsessed with the idea of working there. I thought it would be the best job ever, swimming with orcas and dolphins. I’ve always had a love for water, so that place really appealed to me.

We’d also make stops along the way, and in Baltimore, there was always something to do. We’d go to the aquarium, check out the harbor, and explore the downtown. Baltimore has an amazing food scene, and you can’t get fresh crab cakes anywhere else like you can there.

You might be able to find crab cakes in Detroit, but they’re not going to be the same. Baltimore is known for its seafood, and I was lucky to grow up with parents who appreciated great food and memorable experiences. It made all of those trips special and enjoyable.

Nikki: So, great seafood in Baltimore definitely made the doctor visits a bit more enjoyable. But I imagine not every kid would be excited about crab cakes. Did your parents do anything to push you to try new things or step out of your comfort zone?

Christophe: Funny you ask, Nikki. My mom had a clever system to encourage me. She created a kind of points system where I could earn points for trying new things. She really believed in helping me grow into someone who wasn’t afraid to embrace new experiences.

As a kid, probably around four years old, if I tried something unconventional—like lobster, escargot, or pâté—I could earn points. The amount didn’t really matter, it could be 25 or 50 points, depending on the dish. If I saved up enough points—say, 500 or even 1,000—I could trade them for a toy, Legos, or something else I really wanted. It was a fun way for her to motivate me.

It gave me something I could relate to, like earning points for trying new foods. If I didn’t like something, I didn’t have to finish it, but at least I’d have tried. It was always a win-win for me. I remember seeing my friends be hesitant about foods that weren’t even that exotic—like, if chicken wasn’t fried but baked, they’d turn it down. I’d always think, 'It’s still chicken, and it’s still delicious.'

Nikki: Did that really work for you? Were you ever surprised by something you actually liked, or was it more about getting through it as quickly as possible just to earn the points?

Christophe: It wasn’t always about rushing through things. Eventually, I figured out how to work the system. I'd think, 'You know, I actually enjoy a lot of these dishes, so why not play it cool and act like it’s a challenge?' I’d tell my mom, 'This looks tough, let’s make it worth 75 points.' Then, of course, I’d end up finishing the whole plate. I got clever that way. I remember escargot, which was basically just buttery garlic-filled holes—and it was amazing.

My mom taught French, and she used to take her students on trips to places like Quebec and France. I remember once in Quebec, the whole group tried all kinds of food, but some of the students refused to even try them.

Meanwhile, I was devouring things like octopus and other exotic dishes that her students were too hesitant to touch. They just wanted french fries. I thought it was hilarious, especially since we were in a French Canadian city!

Nikki: That’s so funny! It sounds like your parents, especially your mom, were thrilled to see you stepping out into the world and embracing new experiences. Do you think your experiences would’ve been different if you were of average height?

Christophe: I do think my experiences would’ve been different. As a little person, especially as a child, being out and about with my parents often led to situations where people would offer unsolicited advice about my dwarfism. I remember my mom telling me about being at a pool in California, and a stranger approaching her to suggest things she should do to improve my life. It’s fascinating how people feel compelled to offer guidance, even if they mean well. But there’s a time and place for everything, and boundaries are important. I guess those are the moments where you realize the importance of personal space and respect.

Nikki: That’s awesome. I love that.

Christophe: I think stepping out and pushing through those challenges really builds your confidence and helps you develop self-acceptance. When I went out on my own, I think I took a lot from watching my parents, who were both incredibly independent. They were both like one-person forces, doing their own thing, and whether I realized it or not, that shaped how I approached life.

Nikki: Oh, really? Tell me more about your parents. How did they view travel?

Christophe: My dad worked at General Motors as a clay modeler, which is a rare and fascinating profession. He was an exceptional artist, and he had this deep love for the sea. His favorite music was sea shanties—something I had never heard of until he introduced me to them. I’d listened to all kinds of music, being a musician myself, but sea shanties? That was a whole new world for me. He also had a fondness for bluegrass, so we’d often tune into the NPR station in Detroit, especially on Saturdays when they played bluegrass. That’s when I’d spend time with my dad.

I ended up listening to a lot of bluegrass, especially the Arkansas Traveler Show, which I loved. I think sea shanties are kind of like the bluegrass of the sea. Or at least, that’s my theory. Not sure if it’s accurate, but it makes sense to me.

Nikki: I love that—connecting the music to the places you’re in. It just makes so much sense.

Christophe: Yeah, exactly. It’s not about wheat or farming, it’s about the open ocean or—

Nikki: Right. It’s still about a vast, flowing landscape of sorts, like the sea or the fields—

Christophe: Exactly. That’s it. Perfect.

Nikki: And what about your mom? Tell me a little more about her.

Christophe: My mom was a teacher, and honestly, I think she had more of a wanderlust than my dad. She was the kind of person who would take on anything by herself. If she had an idea, nothing could stop her. She’s incredibly determined and really all about making sure she has the best experiences, for herself and everyone around her.

She’d get summers off and use that time to explore, constantly searching for new cultures and adventures. My mom even taught me French before English when I was a baby, so from the very beginning, different cultures were just part of my world, always in the background.

Nikki: That’s amazing. Do you feel like you’ve inherited her sense of adventure and curiosity?

Christophe: I’d say so, definitely. I think it’s a mix of both my mom and my dad. My dad also took me on some incredible trips when I was younger, like when I was around 11 or 12. We traveled all over the U.S.—we went to the Badlands, the Grand Canyon, Nevada, and made this epic loop. We also did a trip to the east coast, to places like New York, Massachusetts, and Maine. I had no idea that other kids didn’t get to experience that.

So when I got back from these trips at 13, I’d tell my friends about them and ask, “What did you do this summer?” They’d just be like, “Oh, I played outside in the yard.” And I’d think, “Wait, I got to see South Dakota and Colorado. Isn’t that what everyone does?”

Nikki: That sounds like just another day in your family.

Christophe: Exactly.

Nikki: How do you think your dwarfism has affected the way you travel?

Christophe: Honestly, it’s a bit of a downer sometimes because of my size. Socially, I’ve definitely felt restricted in some ways. Some of it’s me holding back, but a lot of it also comes from society’s tendency to either shy away from me or just ignore me.

But then there’s the flip side. Once you get hooked on experiencing things on your own, those solo moments become so rewarding. I’ve had these incredible experiences where I think, 'If I had been with someone else at that moment, this magic wouldn’t have happened.' Sometimes being alone leads to the most amazing things.

There are moments when I look back and think, 'I wish I had someone with me, a partner or a friend.' But then I remember all the times when I was alone and I realized, 'This probably wouldn't have happened if I had been with someone.' Maybe we would’ve just stayed in a hotel, eating food and watching TV.

Nikki: Sure. Traveling solo definitely pushes you out into the world more.

Christophe: Exactly. It forces you to take risks you might not have taken otherwise, or risks that someone else wouldn't want to take with you.

Nikki: That makes total sense. Now, let’s dive into your travel experiences a bit more. You’ve traveled for so many different reasons. How did you get into drumming, and what kind of travel has that involved for you?

Christophe: Yeah, I traveled a lot for music. Our band bought a van, which was a game-changer, and we hit the road. Being from Detroit, we were all used to driving long distances in the snow, often at night. I loved it. It was my dream to become a professional musician and to travel the country—and eventually the world—doing it. I met so many people and saw so many places, sometimes in the strangest ways. Whether it was from the stage, the side of the road, or getting stuck in nearly avalanche conditions at 2 a.m., worrying we wouldn’t make it to the next city—it was all part of the adventure.

I’m truly grateful for all of those experiences. They’ve only fueled my desire for more. I really loved traveling the country and being on the road. But, because I’m small, I also developed my own set of protections, subconsciously.

Whenever I’d show up to a venue, loading in my drums around 4:00 p.m. for soundcheck, I didn’t realize it, but later I was told that everyone in the bar would be staring at me. That’s just been my life—I’ve always been the subject of comments, stares, glares, photos, or people avoiding me. It was just part of the routine, like a continuation of those road trips with my dad. Back then, I would get stared at or attract attention too, and I just learned to handle it in my own way.

Being on the road and playing music was incredible. We played some huge shows, but also performed to an empty room. But those experiences are the ones that shape you. I’ll always have the story from Fort Worth, Texas, where no one showed up, and we had to fight for our $50 from the bar just to get gas to drive to the next place.

Nikki: That’s awesome. Let’s switch gears a bit and talk about surfing. How did that all begin for you?

Christophe: Let’s dive into surfing.

Nikki: How did you, growing up in Detroit, end up falling for surfing? What was the story behind that?

Christophe: I think I was born on the wrong coast! My mom used to take me to Florida during Easter and spring breaks when I was a kid. We had family there, and she loved visiting Captiva Island near Fort Myers on the Gulf Coast. She’d go for the pool and tennis, and there was a beach as well. Even though the waves weren’t great for surfing, there were surf shops, and I’d get completely absorbed by the image of someone gliding on a wave. I thought it was the coolest thing. Plus, I was really into skateboarding, which, as you know, is tied to surf culture. If there was a skate shop around, I’d find it, and I’d be there as much as I could. I guess I was drawn to that counterculture vibe—and maybe even to the idea of being a bit of an outsider myself.

It’s like I saw something in the skateboarders and surfers that I related to, that counterculture lifestyle. I was hooked, and when you mix that with the ocean, that was it for me. I had to do it. So one year, I convinced my mom to take me to Cocoa Beach.

We went, and I rented a surfboard. I’m not going to lie—it was probably the worst surfing experience imaginable. My board was taking on water, I didn’t know how to paddle, and I got caught in a rip current. I didn’t catch a single wave and was just flailing around. But I loved it. I remember thinking, 'I’m going to figure this out. I’m going to learn to ride a wave!' So for about five years, I surfed for two days a year, just trying to get better.

Nikki: That’s awesome. I can see how that determination really set in. What was it like to keep going after such a rough start?

It was like, you know, not just daydreaming in my mom’s basement flipping through my Surfer magazine subscription. Once I got back from spring break, I’d have to wait another whole year until I could get back to the Atlantic Ocean and try surfing for just two days. It was like skateboarding on water, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

It’s funny, when you don’t have that social outlet, you end up finding ways to boost your confidence on your own. Things like drumming, surfing, or skateboarding weren’t social confidence boosters, but they definitely helped me build my own self-confidence and just gave me something positive to focus on in life.

Nikki: I get that. When you were dreaming about surfing, were you thinking of going back to the same spots, or did you have a whole list of places you wanted to surf?

Christophe: Oh, I had this VHS tape that someone gave me of American Samoa. I don’t know how many times I watched it—probably 200, 300 times. It was just this three-minute clip of waves in Samoa. I was obsessed. I’d be like, ‘I want to go to Samoa. Let’s go!’

Nikki: That’s awesome. Of all the different ways you’ve traveled, is there one particular type of trip that stands out as your favorite?

Christophe: These days, traveling takes a toll on my body. It’s definitely harder than it used to be.

Nikki: I hear you on that. Tell me more about it.

Christophe: Travel really stresses my muscles, but when I went to New Zealand and Australia, that was probably one of the best travel experiences I’ve had. The flight was so comfortable, with spacious seats, and it was dark enough to sleep. Then you land and it’s like stepping into a whole new world.

Maybe that’s what I’m after now—long, far journeys in comfort. But I’ll still drive for hours, like 12 or even 16 hours. I don’t mind that at all.

I really enjoy driving across the desert. It’s amazing to see how the landscape shifts over 12 hours of straight driving. It’s beautiful, especially traveling through Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. It’s something I think everyone should experience.

It’s incredible to experience how the desert transforms as you drive through it, seeing the subtle changes in the landscape from the comfort of your car.

Nikki: Yeah, that’s really cool. Can you compare driving to flying for me? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each for you?

Christophe: Flying can be tough on my body. It’s all the moving of luggage over and over again, from the plane to the rental car to the airport, then back to the plane. That constant handling of heavy bags really takes a toll on me. It’s exhausting.

Nikki: Definitely. I think a lot of people can relate to that. Is this something that’s particularly challenging for you as a little person?

Christophe: It can be, but sometimes you just have to push through it. What I find amusing is that the airlines now say flight attendants aren’t required to help with your bags in the overhead compartments. In my experience, though, I’ve never had anyone refuse to help me—everyone else has always pitched in.

I don’t show up expecting people to do things for me. I just say, 'Hey, can you help me with this? Or should I ask someone else? Either way is fine.' I’m not going to put myself in a dangerous position to do it. Most people are really understanding and willing to help, and that’s something I appreciate a lot.

Nikki: That’s really nice to hear. How would you say all of your travels have shaped you?

Christophe: Travel opens your eyes, stretches your mind, and sometimes drains you in the best possible way. I’ve always loved travel for so many reasons. I remember a time after a tough breakup when I went to Death Valley and Anza Borrego to reset, to gain some perspective. Even though those trips were just a few days, they left a lasting impact on me, and I think about them often.

I explored so much. I got lost, I got my heart racing. I hiked alone in areas known for rattlesnakes and mountain lions. You just have to push yourself to do that—to reconnect with nature, to step out of your usual environment. At least for me, it helps break out of that predictable, familiar world and lets me embrace the unexpected. Those trips were so meaningful, whether it was climbing rocks, hiking down steep paths, or shooting astrophotography at 3:00 a.m.

It was such a rush, doing things that really got my heart pounding again. And I think that’s the power of travel—it helps you reconnect with something bigger than yourself.

Nikki: I know that much of your work, including your podcast, focuses on advocacy and normalizing the experiences of little people. Why do you think it’s crucial to have more diverse representation in the travel industry?

Christophe: Absolutely. It’s vital to see different types of bodies everywhere you go, especially when traveling. It’s so important for little people to feel represented in these spaces and know that they can belong in travel situations, just like anyone else.

I’m lucky enough that I’m physically able to travel the way I do. But for many people, traveling can be harder—whether it’s carrying bags or getting through airports. They might need assistance, but often, that need is overlooked or ignored.

When you don’t see people who look like you represented in those spaces, you start to forget that they even exist. Without that visibility, those who are different might feel excluded or like travel isn’t something they can enjoy. It’s crucial to offer that representation so everyone knows they can be a part of it.

I have the same curiosity and desire to explore as anyone else. Just because our bodies are different doesn’t mean our creativity or sense of adventure should be suppressed. It should actually be encouraged. I want people to see me navigating the world, embracing life and doing what I love, especially in all my baldness, knowing that there’s room for everyone to be themselves and pursue their passions just by trying things out.

Nikki: That’s awesome. Do you have any advice for someone who might feel like travel isn’t for them, or who’s hesitant to get out there and explore the world?

Christophe: My advice? Listen to my mom. Seriously. If you’re not gonna listen to your own mom, listen to mine: “Christophe, just try it! Get out there and see for yourself. You never know until you try, and if you do, you’ll know whether or not it’s for you.”

So many incredible things can come from travel. Putting yourself in unfamiliar situations can really open your eyes. Of course, don’t do anything dangerous, but challenge yourself just enough to make your heart race a little. It’s about stepping outside your comfort zone and thinking deeply about other cultures, and the way people live, beyond just what you see on your phone.

Having those firsthand experiences, seeing the world for yourself, and then reflecting on what that means for others is so valuable. It’s the kind of learning you can’t get from a screen or a book.

Aislyn: Thanks so much, Christophe. If you want to learn more about his travels, including some incredible films and documentaries he’s been a part of, visit christophezd.com. You can also listen to his podcast, I’m Kind of a Big Deal, wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll link to everything in the show notes. And before we go, we’ll leave you with a moment of zen from Christophe’s travel archives.

Christophe’s mom: So, how was your vacation? Did you enjoy it?

Christophe, age 2: It was good.

Christophe’s mom: What was your favorite part?

Christophe: I liked the pool.

Christophe’s mom: What did you do while you were in the pool?

Christophe: I just swam all alone.

Christophe’s mom: Where did you go by yourself?

Christophe: I just went underwater.

Christophe’s mom: Oh, you went under all on your own.

Christophe: Yep.

Christophe’s mom: Oh, how do you manage that?

Christophe: I just go underwater like this.

Christophe’s mom: Got it. Did you enjoy the ocean?

Christophe: Nope, I didn’t really like the ocean.

Christophe’s mom: Why not?

Christophe: Did you enjoy the ocean?

Christophe’s mom: I absolutely loved it.

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This has been Unpacked, a production of Dinogo Media. Produced by Aislyn Greene and Nikki Galteland, with music by Chris Colin.

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