S3, E23: How These Three Women Master Solo Travel (And You Can Too).

In this episode of Unpacked, experienced solo adventurer and Dinogo's audio engineer, Nicolle Galteland, reveals the secrets of solo travel. She chats with Pamela Holt, host of the TV series Me, Myself and the World: The Art of Solo Travel, about breaking down solo travel challenges (especially for women) and embracing the unique advantages of going solo.

Next, Brook Kelly, an advisor for the Bonderman Travel Fellowship, shares how she's guided countless individuals, including Nicolle, through safe and enriching travel experiences. She provides real-life stories and actionable advice on handling surprises, understanding your priorities, and easing family worries.

Show Transcript

Aislyn: I’m Aislynn Greene, and welcome to Unpacked, the podcast that dives deep into a travel conundrum each week. This time, we're exploring solo travel: why people are drawn to it, how to journey solo with confidence and safety, and ways to reassure concerned loved ones. Unpacked's own engineer, Nikki Galteland, is a seasoned solo traveler herself. At 21, she earned a fellowship that required at least eight months of independent travel, taking her across the globe.

In this episode, Nikki chats with two inspiring solo travelers: Pamela Holt, host of the TV show Me, Myself, and the World: The Art of Solo Travel, and Brook Kelly, a seasoned solo traveler who spent years advising the Bonderman Travel Fellowship at the University of Washington. Brook guided Nikki during her own fellowship travels and has since helped countless others embark on safe, enriching solo journeys. They both share entertaining stories and valuable insights. Let’s dive in!

Nikki: Hi Pamela, welcome to Unpacked! Could you start by introducing yourself and telling us a bit about what you do?

Pamela: Hello, I’m Pamela Holt, the host and executive producer of Me, Myself, and the World: The Art of Solo Travel. And yes, I'm a solo traveler at heart.

Nikki: That's amazing! What was your very first solo adventure?

Pamela: My solo travel journey began at 19 when I ventured to Japan for a couple of months. It was thrilling to explore on my own and truly immerse myself in discovery. I had visited Japan with my family before, and I actually started traveling internationally at 13—that’s when the travel bug first bit me.

I vividly remember the exact moment I sat in Jimmy’s [Kitchen] on the Kowloon side of Hong Kong, savoring a spoonful of French onion soup. It hit me then—this is what I want to do with my life. That realization struck fast. At 19, I got the chance to head to Japan for work, and it turned out to be an unforgettable experience.

Nikki: That’s incredible. So, why does solo travel hold such significance for you?

Pamela: Solo travel has always been my passion. The sense of freedom and autonomy was unmatched, but everything shifted in my mid-thirties after a serious car accident that nearly left me unable to walk. I made a promise to myself that if I recovered—no, when I recovered—I’d truly live life to the fullest.

During my recovery, I began sketching out plans for my future adventures. I made a vow, my 80-by-50 challenge: to explore 80 countries before turning 50. And I did it. On my 50th birthday, I touched down in Bhutan, kicking off a seven-and-a-half-week solo journey that I dubbed my golden jubilee.

Nikki: That’s amazing!

Pamela: It was truly during that trip that I had my big 'aha' moment.

With my background in film and TV production and my love for solo adventures, the idea struck me—why not create Me, Myself, and the World: The Art of Solo Travel? Around that time, so many people would come up to me, amazed, saying things like, ‘Wow, you’re traveling solo for seven and a half weeks?’

They'd say, 'You’ll be so lonely, it’ll be so challenging.'—all the usual fears about going solo. But I had more than words to counter those concerns; I had the chance to showcase my experiences in full color through a TV show. So, six months later, I returned with a camera crew—just me and one other person—and we shot everything ourselves, using up to six cameras at times.

Nikki: That’s awesome! I love the concept. Let’s go back a bit—what are some of the common fears or doubts people share with you about solo travel?

Pamela: Oh, the biggest one has to be, ‘I’ll be all alone.’ But with nearly 8 or 9 billion people on the planet, being truly alone is quite a challenge! You meet wonderful people no matter where you go. A simple smile can open doors and break down barriers. It creates connections—sometimes with fellow solo travelers, and sometimes with welcoming locals.

That fear of being alone is probably the most common I hear about, and the best way to tackle it is often just a smile or a simple greeting. I picked up 'hello' in so many languages because that little word melts away the initial tension. For many, both men and women, the fear of safety is another big one. My advice? Trust your instincts. We all have that inner voice—listen to it. It’s great to be friendly, but if something feels off, politely excuse yourself and move along. If you sense someone trailing you, don't be afraid to turn around and say, How you doing?

Say it with confidence, a bit of flair. That simple “How you doing?” communicates a few things: 1: “How you doing?” 2: I see you. 3: I recognize you. 4: I know you might be following me. That shift in dynamic makes you a less appealing target; you’ve shown them that you’re alert, and that’s usually enough to make them back off.

Afterwards, if your nerves get to you, it’s okay to let yourself feel it. So, as you mentioned, being alone is a common concern, but safety is right up there too.

Another fear, believe it or not, is facing your own thoughts. When you're solo, you have to keep yourself company, and that means processing things—what’s happening at home, old memories, anxieties about what’s next. Instead of seeing this as something scary, think of it as a unique opportunity for introspection.

It’s a perfect time to write down your thoughts, ask yourself, ‘What’s on my mind? What’s holding me back?’ As you progress through your journey, you might notice those worries fading, making space for self-growth. Remember, there’s no such thing as failure in life—only learning experiences.

There’s only learning in life. So, face the fear and take the leap anyway.

Nikki: That's amazing. It seems like your parents have been really encouraging about your travels. But did you ever encounter someone who tried to discourage you? Like, 'That destination is too risky' or similar?

Pamela: Oh my goodness, yes, so many times. Countless women have told me things like, 'Oh no, don’t do that, you can’t handle that, it’s too risky', followed by all kinds of reasons. And I’ve managed to change the minds of every single one of them. There’s one particular woman who just couldn’t fathom why I would ever want to travel alone. She didn’t see the joy in it.

For my 40th birthday, I embarked on a grand adventure through Peru, the Galápagos, and the Amazon. About five years later, I bumped into that same woman, and she says to me, 'Oh, I’m planning my trip to Peru!' My first reaction was: 'Wait, they’re actually letting you into Peru?'

I couldn’t help but think, is this L.A. lady really ready for Peru? But then she clarified, 'Oh, no, I’m not actually going to Peru. I’m heading to New Mexico—that’s my Peru.' And as she explained, she said, 'I’ve always been afraid of wearing jeans, cowboy boots, or turquoise. So, I’m going to face those fears and try it all.'

She had an unforgettable time in New Mexico. That was her 'Peru,' her way of facing a fear through a solo adventure. Since then, she’s moved well beyond New Mexico—she’s explored Italy and even ventured solo through England. It all started with that first step into solo travel...

Nikki: Yeah!

Pamela: ...truly pushing herself beyond her cultural boundaries and comfort zone.

Nikki: Yes, I really love that idea of taking the step that feels right for you. If that’s what brings you fulfillment and sets you on this journey, then that’s amazing, isn’t it?

Pamela: Absolutely, and I often talk about the stages of solo travel. I usually advise women who are hesitant about traveling alone to start small—perhaps with a day trip or a quick escape to a nearby destination, just a few hours away by car, boat, or plane.

Then, try visiting another state. I’m currently in Dallas, but I’d suggest checking out Ventura, California. It’s like Malibu’s laid-back cousin—same beachy charm without the hefty price tag. When you're ready for more, head to an English-speaking destination like England or Australia. It’s a great first step into international travel.

You won’t have to worry about a language barrier, making it easier to navigate. And then, for the final step on the solo travel journey, choose a place known for being friendly to solo travelers, like Bali, Indonesia. You’ll find plenty of others exploring solo too.

Or opt for a country with an outstanding public transportation system, like Japan, where anyone can get around with ease. It’s super user-friendly for English speakers, Japanese speakers, and even those who know a bit of Chinese. From there, you’ll be ready to dive into deeper adventures, as solo travel can be quite addictive.

Nikki: Yeah, absolutely. I love that.

Pamela: Another tip I give is for those who want to try solo travel but feel anxious about it—start with a group, partner, or family trip. Then, extend your stay alone. I prefer staying a few extra days by myself. By then, you’re familiar with the area, the culture, the currency, and can enjoy those last days solo while your companions head back home. It’s a great way to transition into solo travel, even on work trips.

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Pamela: I’ve aimed to change the way people view solo travel because they often think 'solo' means 'alone.' I’m here to say, actually, SOLO stands for something: Seeking Out Life’s Opportunities. SOLO—Seeking Out Life’s Opportunities. It shifts the focus from the stereotype of the young backpacker or someone navigating a midlife crisis.

Seeking out life’s opportunities is for anyone at any point in their life, curious about the world and eager to explore it on their own terms. It’s about letting life’s winds guide you to new adventures.

Nikki: Nice. I totally believe solo travel can create deep connections with people and places. But sometimes, things can get tricky. I heard you had a run-in with the authorities in Russia—can you share what happened?

Pamela: Oh, that’s a story! Okay, I have to be careful in how I tell this. So, I met some amazing women. It all started when I was in a restroom at a bar across from The Church of the Savior on Spilled Blood. The place was called Mustangs back then. And, well, you know how it is—putting on lip gloss while waiting in that endless bathroom line.

And these twelve girls looked at me like I had just handed them some kind of golden ticket. I glanced around and thought, 'Do you all want to try it?' They each took a turn, and when they handed it back, I said, 'You know what, one of you can just keep it.'

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Pamela: The girl who kept it, I kept running into her, and we ended up having a blast together. They welcomed me into their group, which was such a treat—hanging out with locals. One night, they said, ‘We’re taking you to some local bars, but we’ll have to keep you under the radar.’ And, well, we might have wandered a bit beyond the usual tourist spots.

This was quite some time ago—back in late '97, early '98.

Nikki: OK.

Pamela: So, I spotted some French fries and thought, let’s grab some fries. I ended up buying fries for everyone. It was no big deal. However, some comrades noticed those specific girls eating fries and realized they couldn’t afford any.

Definitely not all of them. They proceeded to shove us against the wall and start searching us. Just before they approached, the girl turned to me and said, ‘You can’t speak or hear, right?’ We pretended not to understand at all. I could hear them yelling in Russian, but I had no clue what they were saying.

And she couldn’t explain it to me in English. Just as they were about to toss us into their car and arrest us, I thought, no, this is my only shot. I exclaimed, ‘I’ll buy you fries! I’ll buy you all the fries you want!’ They looked at me confused, realizing suddenly that I wasn’t Russian.

She quickly informed them, ‘She’ll buy you anything. She’s got cash.’ They were thrilled with the idea of me buying fries, and I handed them a $10 bill to cover fries for who knows how long. So, I effectively bought my way out of trouble with French fries.

Nikki: What an incredible story! Oh my goodness. Well done on your quick thinking.

Pamela: Yes, and I remained friends with her; we were pen pals for quite a while.

Nikki: Oh, that’s wonderful! How do you choose your style of solo travel? Is it more of a backpacker hostel vibe or leaning toward five-star luxury? How do you navigate that spectrum?

Pamela: Absolutely, who doesn’t enjoy luxury travel? However, I prefer to get my feet a bit dirty. I want to engage with locals, come back with stories, and really immerse myself in the culture. So, I generally opt for the more budget-friendly options, not due to finances, but for the experience. I genuinely enjoy staying in hostels.

The reason is that hostels aren’t what they once were. People often picture chaotic hostels with 18 beds in a room. Sure, you can find those, but many of those same hostels also offer 5 to 10 private rooms, giving you your own space and bathroom.

Plus, there’s a communal area where you can meet other solo travelers. This connection is what everyone craves, and I absolutely cherish that aspect. When I’m at a hotel, I feel like the staff knows I’m alone in my room, and I don’t have anyone else to share it with.

No one will engage with me at the breakfast table, but in a hostel or any shared space—like when I was in Beijing—I hadn’t even fully arrived yet, and these two Scottish guys approached me, asking if I was the person with the, um, the single room with two beds. I replied, 'I think so; I haven’t even checked in yet.'

They mentioned a girl who literally had no place to stay. She had been there for a week without anywhere to go. They asked if she could stay with me, and in that moment, I thought, why not? So, I agreed. In return, she invited me to a place called Jinkao, a part of the Great Wall that I had never heard of. It’s where the real wall is, not the reconstructed sections.

This was the actual Great Wall from centuries ago, and I wouldn’t have experienced it if I hadn’t said 'yes and' to a fellow solo traveler in need. That’s why I adore hostels. I could talk endlessly about the amazing experiences, and many hostels are now lifting age restrictions because they’re realizing more solo travelers are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s.

In my series, Me, Myself, and the World. I interview a solo traveler in each episode, with ages ranging from 20 to almost 80. We also discuss redefining solo travel. Solo doesn’t mean alone, nor does it imply being single. Many people have partners yet still travel solo because their partner can’t, isn’t interested, or doesn’t share the same passions. Hostels are definitely tuning in to their travelers and making adjustments.

Nikki: Absolutely. Even if your partner enjoys traveling, there are still advantages to solo travel. You might end up taking separate trips anyway.

Pamela: I was chatting with a couple who were planning a trip to England. The guy was sitting there rolling his eyes at all the activities she wanted to do. I thought, wait a minute, you both just attended a solo travel lecture! Why not go to England together and then split up for three days? You can enjoy all the sporting events while she visits the museums and checks out Blackpool and York.

Then come back after three days to share stories and passions you discovered along the way. Because when you first started dating—50 years ago—you had your own individual interests, and sharing those ignited your relationship.

So why not do that again? They looked at each other like, wow, let’s give it a shot. There are countless reasons why people choose to travel solo.

Nikki: Absolutely! Now, tell me about your show. What can viewers expect when they tune in?

Pamela: Yes, I’m thrilled that Me, Myself and the World is reaching a wider audience. As the title suggests, the tagline is all about the art of solo travel.

I explore Hanoi, Vietnam, venturing off the usual tourist paths. Riding a vintage Russian motorcycle through the bustling streets of Hanoi was one of the most incredible tours I've ever experienced. Additionally, I had the unique privilege of introducing two veterans from opposing sides of the Vietnam War, 50 years later. The significance of bridging their stories and allowing them to share their experiences was profoundly moving and incredibly rewarding.

I engage in a lot of enjoyable activities. Essentially, everything in this series revolves around immersion. Each episode features an interview with either a solo traveler or a local, allowing me to gain insights into their views on solo travel—why they choose to travel alone, the lessons they've learned, and how these experiences have positively transformed them.

Nikki: What led you to choose Hanoi and the other locations featured in the show? It sounds like you’ve visited most of them before, right?

Pamela: Indeed! For my 50th birthday, I embarked on a journey to eight different countries. During that time, I had an epiphany about blending solo travel with my background in film and television. From those eight countries, I took note of which locations were camera-friendly and where I had the most immersive experiences. I considered what first-time solo travelers would find appealing in a show like this and handpicked the best experiences. A common question I get is, how can you host a solo travel show while traveling with a crew?

The answer is that I always embody the solo traveler experience first, then return six months later with a film crew for this specific show. The key takeaway from Me, Myself and the World and The Art of Solo Travel is that viewers will witness my solo travels and realize, oh, it really is quite simple.

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Pamela: I often hear people say, 'Oh, that destination feels so unfamiliar.' And I respond, 'Yes, but for someone else, like another woman, it’s simply home.'

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Pamela: And yet, she might feel intimidated about visiting Los Angeles or New York. I remind them that we navigate our local grocery stores alone every day and manage various tasks independently.

And when we venture into someone else's neighborhood, we'll be just fine.

I believe that redefining solo travel is my most significant insight. I've seen the expressions on people's faces change the moment I introduce this concept. It's almost as if I've given them a permission slip, breaking the stigma that solo travel equates to being alone or lacking friends. In reality, it's about embracing life's opportunities and, more importantly, fostering connections.

Nikki: Yeah.

Pamela: When you embark on a solo journey, it opens the door to truly connect with others.

I cherish this idea: traveling alone can be the most exhilarating, liberating, and transformative experience you'll ever have. Just give it a shot at least once. In fact, I believe that solo travel will offer you unparalleled freedom and change your life. So, try it out at least once.

If I could convey one message to everyone around the globe, it would be this: solo travel will enrich your life in remarkable ways.

Nikki: What a wonderful message to conclude with. Thank you very much.

Pamela: Thank you! I appreciate you having me here. Wishing you happy travels!

Nikki: Thank you, and safe travels to you as well.

After the break, Brook Kelly will share stories and tips to ensure every traveler feels secure and self-assured on their adventures.

[Break]

Nikki: Hello, Brook! Welcome to Unpacked. I’m thrilled to have this conversation with you—not only because you are an accomplished solo traveler yourself, but also due to your unique role in guiding countless individuals as they set off on long solo adventures around the globe.

I should mention that our connection stems from my time as a Bonderman Fellow in 2012, where you served as my advisor. Could you share a bit about what that fellowship entails?

Brook: Absolutely! The Bonderman Fellowship is a remarkable opportunity offered by the University of Washington for both undergraduate and graduate students.

The fellowship provides funding for worldwide travel, and while there are certain criteria to meet, the essence of it is that the world has so much to teach us. In a higher education setting, students may not always discover the various ways outside academia to learn, grow, and challenge themselves.

Venturing out into diverse cultures and experiences can be just as enriching to one's education as obtaining a degree. I dedicated nearly 20 years to that program, supporting many individuals as they prepared for and embarked on their global journeys.

Nikki: Indeed! You received this fellowship as an undergraduate, which is also how we came to know each other, since you guided me on my trip back in 2012. Today, I’d love to discuss how solo travelers can feel secure and confident while on the road—and perhaps more challengingly, how they can reassure their friends and family about their safety. I imagine you often address the concerns of family members and friends with the fellows.

How often would you say it was for you as an advisor to discuss those kinds of worries?

Brook: Yes, the majority of my role involved working with the undergraduate participants of the Bonderman Fellowship. It's crucial to understand that individuals are at various stages in their lives; not all undergraduates are just 21 or 22 when they graduate and embark on the fellowship.

However, that age group likely makes up a significant portion of them. They tend to be younger than graduate or professional students and often have closer ties to their parents or guardians. I would say that certainly more than half of the fellows I supported were open about discussing their family members' concerns with me.

Nikki: Mmhmm.

Brook: . . . I would say that nearly everyone has had to deal with that to some degree, whether or not they sought my assistance to brainstorm or discuss finding that balance or how to communicate with those significant people in their lives. However, I believe that at least half of the fellows I’ve worked with have inquired about it.

Nikki: That’s wonderful. Can we dive right in? What are a few pieces of advice you’ve shared with people over the years?

Brook: Absolutely! I always begin by emphasizing that it’s very personal. It depends on who you are as a traveler and also on the loved one you’re trying to explain your plans to—what you want to do, why you feel comfortable doing it, and the itinerary itself. Where are you headed?

What activities are you proposing? The way you approach the conversation with that loved one will vary significantly based on those aspects. I think it’s important to reflect on yourself concerning those three factors and do your research. I’ve worked with a wide range of travelers, after all.

Personally, I tend to be more organized; I enjoy creating spreadsheets and conducting thorough research. Not everyone operates that way, and that’s perfectly okay. With the fellowship, we never mandated a specific method for travel preparation, but the more groundwork you can lay when faced with such concerns or questions, the better you can demonstrate your preparedness, which will help ease those worries.

When they have questions, it’s important to respond with confidence, which will reassure them. After all, these are likely the people who know you best, so they'll sense if you’re being insincere or providing a half-hearted answer.

By doing that groundwork and being truthful—acknowledging when you don’t have an answer but sharing the resources you’re exploring, like informative websites or podcasts—I’m actively researching to be better equipped to tackle these questions. That’s my foundational approach when addressing concerns and inquiries.

Nikki: Yes, that totally resonates. I appreciate how you’ve categorized those into three areas; it’s incredibly useful. What kinds of concerns do you find arise most frequently among travelers?

Brook: Absolutely! There’s a wide range of issues, and it has evolved over time with the world around us. In the earlier days, many people were more focused on questions like, how will I maintain connections?

Nikki: Mmhmm.

Brook: . . . how will I keep in touch with others? Nowadays, that concern has diminished significantly because staying connected is so easy. In fact, it has flipped to becoming a challenge: how do you unplug from technology that keeps you constantly connected to home? It’s about establishing boundaries and creating personal space while maintaining communication.

I strive to ensure that my loved ones feel reassured about my travels while also taking care of my own needs, giving myself the freedom to be present in the moment. So, that’s my little detour into the topic of technology.

Nikki: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

Brook: Additionally, one ongoing concern relates to the traveler’s identity. For example, are you a woman traveling alone?

Are you a person of color in a place where your identity differs from the majority? Are you part of the LGBTQ+ community? What identities are you carrying with you, or how are you perceived in the country you’re visiting? Even if you don’t feel particularly defined by these aspects of your identity, how do you navigate them?

One story that really stands out to me involves a solo female traveler who was eager to visit India. However, everyone in her family and friend circle dramatically warned her: It's far too dangerous for a woman to travel there alone.

They insisted she shouldn't go there by herself, and she was bombarded with these warnings. So we had several discussions where I told her, 'I won’t pressure you to go if you genuinely feel afraid.' After all, she had expressed a desire to visit.

We reflected on why she was excited about the trip and considered ways she could prepare to feel more comfortable. By the end of her research, she felt so equipped and thrilled about her journey.

She even created a PowerPoint presentation for her family, showcasing everything she had learned and her plans. She told me, 'This has rekindled my excitement to go.' This highlights how important it is to assess the validity of those concerns. Many are genuine, and you must recognize your identities and how they might be perceived as you navigate this.

There are indeed places that might not feel as safe for solo travel. It’s crucial to think about how you’d want to manage those situations. These are the types of concerns that frequently arise, along with worries about what might happen if things go awry.

Another significant question that often weighs on the minds of families and loved ones is, what's the plan?

Nikki: Uh-huh.

Brook: What's the emergency strategy? The travel I've been involved with for many years is based on a university fellowship program, which provides some level of support. However, even with that backing, you are still just one person on the other side of the globe. Sure, you can reach out to the insurance hotline or call me in the middle of the night from the U.S., but I won’t be there to set your broken leg. You need to think about how you will access help in the place where you are.

It's essential to familiarize yourself with the emergency services available at your destination. Know what healthcare options exist and assess whether your activities are in remote or risky areas—this might mean considering whether to carry a satellite phone. And is a satellite phone even legal in the country you're visiting? These are crucial questions that depend on your travel plans.

Nikki: Absolutely, that makes perfect sense. I recall that when I traveled, having medical insurance, including emergency evacuation, was part of our preparation. I was curious, has the precautionary infrastructure available to fellows changed since 2012?

Brook: Um, absolutely.

Nikki: I'm sure it has, but I wonder if there are any other examples?

Brook: Yes, there's still a requirement for insurance. This is also part of growing older. When I was 21, I thought, insurance? What’s that? But now, having children, I realize that if I were to embark on a significant international solo or family trip, I would definitely get travel insurance.

I personally prefer having a safety net; it gives me peace of mind. I've seen enough people needing to use it to know its value. So, the insurance policy remains, as does the requirement for it. I’d say one of the changes since your time as a fellow is that there's now a more structured orientation and preparation process.

Everything has become more organized and thorough. We've learned a lot over the years and developed a more extensive orientation plan that covers a broad spectrum of services and challenges that travelers may face. One major aspect we didn’t emphasize as much when you were a fellow is the importance of mental and emotional health. It's crucial to prepare strategies, build your capacity, and create a network to navigate the difficult feelings of otherness, dislocation, and self-doubt that often accompany solo travel.

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Brook: . . . the blend of freedom and fear that travelers experience simultaneously, and how to equip yourself with a strong foundation to rely on while traveling. I believe this conversation has evolved significantly, becoming much more prominent and in-depth in our culture over the years.

Nikki: Absolutely, that’s a fantastic observation. You've mentioned witnessing people utilize resources like travel insurance and emergency backup plans. Do you think people generally gauge their travel risks accurately? Do you notice them often overestimating or underestimating these risks?

I understand it’s challenging to generalize, given the wide variety of travelers and scenarios you encounter, but . . .

Brook: Yes, that's an excellent question. I don’t have a tidy, straightforward answer. People can be quite surprising, you know? Those who appear calm and collected often react differently than I would anticipate.

There are times when someone with less independent life experience surprises me. They might say, 'Oh, this happened, and I handled it.' It’s delightful to see how people can still astonish me after all these years in this field.

I believe there’s a tendency to over-rely on technology. Many people, especially those from the U.S., expect that the level of technology and internet access will be consistent everywhere.

Brook: A concept that’s always been relevant but continues to impress me is the idea of a single point of failure. People often think, 'I have my phone, all my contacts, and my flight details,' but what happens when your phone malfunctions or the internet goes down in the country you’re visiting? I've worked with fellows who've faced this reality—there can be absolutely no internet available.

At that point, your phone just becomes an expensive paperweight. So, what are your backup plans? Do you carry a small notebook with essential information written down?

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Brook: Do you have a phone number for someone you could call? Or do you know how to make an international call if you lose internet access?

These are the kinds of issues that many people don't foresee, yet they can turn into significant problems.

Nikki: Absolutely. It makes perfect sense. The only location I returned to since my travels on the Bonderman Fellowship is Tajikistan. The changes over the years have been remarkable. When I first visited, Google Maps was practically useless—just not an option.

However, during my return for grad school, I had a Tajik SIM card and was able to navigate in the mountains using maps and access a wealth of information. It’s incredible how fast things evolve.

I understand that relying on phones can present a risk, but do you think being connected has generally eased people's anxieties? Have you noticed that family and friends feel more at ease knowing there’s an expectation of more frequent contact?

Brook: I believe that’s accurate. Generally speaking, it holds true. Also, when you establish clear expectations and boundaries, remember that you can always adjust them later.

Nikki: Yes, exactly.

Brook: For instance, if you set out on your travels and promised your mom you'd call her daily, and then you realize...

Nikki: Oh my goodness.

Brook: ...that’s just not feasible, really.

It’s really detracting from my experience. I worked with someone recently who had a clever negotiation with their parent: they agreed to send just one emoji each day. Haha.

Nikki: That’s fantastic!

Brook: I wanted to keep it simple, you know? It could be a monkey emoji because I saw one today, or something completely random just to check in. This way, I don’t have to put much mental effort or emotional energy into crafting the perfect message for my mom or boyfriend, figuring out how to tailor it to the person I’m sending it to and the conversation I want to have right now. Just a more relaxed approach, which I found really amusing and impressive.

Nikki: It can be incredibly exhausting to constantly reassure people that you’re alright, especially when you might be having a tough day and don’t feel like discussing it.

Brook: Absolutely. In my experience, making calls has often been more emotionally challenging.

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Brook: Back in 2004, it was also quite expensive and logistically challenging. However, I found that emailing allowed me to be more thoughtful and intentional in my responses. It helped me organize my thoughts without the pressure of constant communication.

This was before the age of social media, so my emails were quite lengthy compared to today’s standards. They were more contextual and narrative-driven, detailing what I was experiencing and who I was with. I found that this approach really suited me.

I do worry about people getting caught up in social media FOMO when it comes to travel. You see others showcasing their perfect vacations and might feel disappointed about your own experiences, especially if you dealt with things like bug bites or stomach issues while traveling. It’s so easy to compare yourself to what you see.

Again, remember that what you’re seeing is likely a curated story. Most people won’t show their 200 bug bites! I want to reassure those who haven’t traveled much: please don’t let yourself spiral into comparing your experiences to others’ seemingly perfect ones.

Often, with the people I’ve worked with, the public image they portray is, 'Everything's amazing! I'm having a blast!' Yet, I frequently receive emails saying, 'I feel like I’m failing. I must be doing something wrong. This can’t be how it’s meant to be.'

I often respond with, 'That's a good sign; you're in the right mindset.' When you start experiencing self-doubt and questioning your actions and their purpose, it indicates you’re deep in a learning journey.

Nikki: Yes, I completely understand that sweet struggle with self-doubt from my own experience. Are there any other stories you’d like to share that could be beneficial for those planning their trips?

Brook: Absolutely! I’d like to share a personal story. My parents instilled in me a love for travel. When I was nine, after my grandfather passed away, my dad received a small inheritance. We could have spent that money in various ways, but my parents decided they wanted a grand adventure.

My dad's family hails from Ireland, and being a biologist and outdoor enthusiast, my parents made the bold choice to pull us out of school for a month-long trip to Ireland followed by another month in Kenya, back in 1991.

Looking back, I realize if I were to do that with my own kids, my parents would probably freak out. However, when I received the Bonderman fellowship and planned to travel solo in eastern and southern Africa, my parents were quite anxious. They asked, 'How can you possibly do this on your own?' My response was, 'But you’re the ones who inspired me to pursue this adventure.'

Nikki: Uh-huh. That's incredible.

Brook: You planted that desire in me. You taught me to trust myself and have confidence in my abilities. So, I naturally expected your support for this journey, and they were indeed wonderfully supportive. However, I believe my approach wasn’t entirely intentional.

I felt more like I was responding to my parents' apparent hypocrisy. But it’s essential to consider what values we share. When discussing with a partner, ask yourself what binds you together. What makes you want to be in a partnership with me? Is it the adventurous spirit I bring?

Think about how we can support each other. How can I help you face your fears, and how can you be part of my support system to ensure this is a fantastic experience for both of us?

In many ways, involving them in the journey can be beneficial. It allows them to participate in your experiences and serves as a reminder of who you are and what drives your passion for travel. Reflecting on your internal motivations can enhance the significance of the journey you embark on.

Nikki: That's incredible. Thank you so much! I feel like that’s a wonderful note to end on. It's been a pleasure chatting with you, and I hope we connect again soon.

Brook: It's been great speaking with you too, Nicolle. I really appreciate it.

Aislyn: That was Nikki Galteland in conversation with Pamela Holt and Brook Kelly. In the show notes, you'll find links to information about the Bonderman Travel Fellowship and Pamela’s television show, Me, Myself and the World.

Next week, we’ll dive into the world of off-the-grid luxury travel at the Clayoquot Wilderness Lodge.

Jenn Flowers: I've heard that the Clayoquot Wilderness Lodge presents an Imax-style view of these stunning landscapes, allowing you to experience them from air, land, and sea. As we ascend in our seaplane, heading west towards Vancouver Island, the bustling urban areas start to transform into lush hillside forests.

Some forests display a rich tapestry of greens, while others are dotted with short trees that appear as neatly trimmed grass from our aerial view, interspersed with brown logging roads. As we draw closer to Clayoquot Lodge, the surrounding peaks rise sharply, towering above us.

We zip past groves of western red cedar, western hemlock, Sitka spruce, Douglas fir, and bigleaf maples. The trees seem so near that I feel I could almost reach out and touch them. My heart races, a mix of exhilaration from the breathtaking view and the strong gusts of wind shaking the plane. As we make our final approach, I catch sight of the lodge’s new solar field, and a winding estuary gracefully embraces the property as it flows into Clayoquot Sound. I'm eager to explore it all up close.

Hungry for more insights? Head over to Dinogo.com, and don’t forget to follow us on Instagram and Twitter. You can find the magazine at @Dinogomedia. If you enjoyed our adventure today, I hope you'll return for more captivating stories. Subscribing makes this easy! Unpacked is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. Be sure to rate and review the show to help fellow travelers discover it. We’d love to hear from you: do you have a travel challenge, trend, or topic you'd like us to cover? Reach out at Dinogo.com/feedback or email us at unpacked@Dinogo.com.

You've been listening to Unpacked, a Dinogo Media production. This podcast is brought to life by Aislyn Greene and Nikki Galteland, with music composed by Chris Colin.

Keep in mind: The world is intricate, and we're here to help you navigate through it.