Season 2, Episode 1: Top Travel Destinations for 2023

It’s that time of year again to plan your travels for the year ahead. In this week’s episode of Unpacked by Dinogo, editorial director Sarika Bansal is joined by deputy editor Tim Chester and freelancer Ashlea Halpern as they dive into our annual list of top destinations for 2023.

Discussion topics include

• 2:38: Introduction to the creation of Dinogo's annual 'Where to Go' list
• 5:30: The trending destinations of the moment
• 21:51: The importance of giving back to the places we visit
• 32:05: Traveling with family
• 35:28: Where our editorial team is traveling next

Full Transcript

Hi, I’m Sarika Bansal, the editorial director at Dinogo. Welcome to Unpacked, the podcast where we dive deep into one complex travel topic each week. This week, we're tackling a question that’s on everyone’s mind: Where should we go next?

Since our launch in 2009, Dinogo has published an annual 'Where to Go' list every January. The pandemic, however, significantly influenced our picks. In 2021, we shared heartfelt tributes to 12 places we dreamed of visiting while borders remained largely closed. In 2022, we curated a bold list of 39 destinations that became our top picks as the world reopened. But for 2023, we decided to narrow our focus to a few select destinations that truly captivated our attention.

In line with this approach, I'm joined by two fantastic travel experts who contributed to this year’s list: Tim Chester, our deputy editor at Dinogo, and Ashlea Halpern, a freelance travel writer. Tim and I reached out to writers and reporters worldwide to find out which destinations were currently experiencing a surge in interest. We ended up with a sprawling Google doc spanning almost 150 pages, featuring locations from the Arctic to South Africa. After extensive research and spirited discussions, we whittled the list down to just 12 destinations.

You can find the full list in Dinogo’s Winter 2023 print edition (now available on newsstands) or online at Dinogo.com/wtg2023. Our picks include cities like Bangkok, Baltimore, Bergamo, and Brescia, along with more off-the-beaten-path escapes like Transylvania, Tasmania, and Tanzania’s Ruaha National Park. We’ve tailored our suggestions to every kind of traveler—whether you're cycling through Prince Edward Island’s new Island Walk, savoring seafood and live music in Brazil’s Salvador, or soaking in the art and architecture of Sharjah in the UAE.

Today, I’ll be chatting with Tim and Ashlea about all the destinations on our list, what we discovered about them, our predictions for the upcoming year, and of course, where we plan to travel next.

Let’s dive right in.

Sarika: Thanks for being here! I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I’d love to hear from both of you—where are you based, and how’s everything going?

Tim: Thanks for having us. I’m Tim Chester, and I live in Thousand Oaks, a suburb just outside of Los Angeles. It's been raining heavily here lately. I've been with Dinogo for about four or five years, all the way from Southern California.

And as you can probably tell from my accent, I’m British—something that often surprises people when they meet me for the first time.

Sarika: How long have you been living in California now?

Tim: I relocated here from London about six and a half years ago.

Sarika: Nice! How about you, Ashlea?

Ashlea: I’m based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, where the temperature feels like minus 400 degrees right now. My husband and I moved here in 2018 after four years of full-time travel. We were everywhere during that time. Before that, we spent a decade in New York City.

Sarika: Cool! I should have mentioned that I’m based in Nairobi, Kenya. I’ve been living here for about five years now and have been with Dinogo for a year and a half. I believe one of the first projects I worked on when I joined was the 2022 ‘Where to Go’ issue, which was quite different from this year's edition—it was a full issue takeover.

That issue covered 39 destinations worldwide. It was a bit overwhelming, especially with a small team. This time, for various reasons, we decided to narrow down the list and make it more focused.

Tim, you and I were both involved in putting this list together, so do you want to share your thoughts on the experience?

Tim: Sure. I think one reason we ended up with 39 destinations last year was that we were so eager, as travel began to open up again, to highlight all the incredible places we felt people could visit. It felt like there was a world of possibilities.

This time, however, we decided to narrow it down to just 12 spots. Each of these destinations has something special to offer, and we wanted to dedicate enough space in the magazine to showcase the stunning photography and explain why these places should be on your radar. As for the process of selecting them: it took many months of careful consideration to settle on just 12.

We started gathering suggestions from our global team of writers and editors early in the year. By late spring and early summer, we had hundreds of pitches. All of these were compiled into a massive Google Doc with a spreadsheet format.

Then, as editors, our job was to sift through them and choose destinations that would represent a diverse geographical range and different types of experiences—everything from city breaks to outdoor adventures. Our goal was to offer something for every kind of traveler.

After many discussions and debates, we finally narrowed it down to the 12 destinations that made the cut.

Sarika: Absolutely. That Google Doc was massive. But I want to highlight two things you mentioned. First, every location on this list is definitely in the spotlight this year. There’s a clear ‘why now’ reason for each one. Sometimes, I look at similar lists and wonder what the criteria are, but this was a key differentiator for us. The other point you made was about the number of cities on the list. That’s a shift from last year, and I think it’s tied to how the pandemic has unfolded.

Even when we did highlight cities, we focused on ways to experience them outdoors and in the fresh air. I think it was important to talk about places where you could enjoy culture, music, and experiences that many people have been missing over the past few years.

Tim: Absolutely. You've mentioned in the past that earlier lists were all about outdoor adventures and keeping your distance. This year, we’ve shifted focus to cultural experiences and gathering together over meals at restaurants or attending concerts and gigs.

As for the ‘why now’ question, some places made the list because of significant developments like new hotels or an emerging restaurant scene led by innovative chefs. Graz, Austria, is a prime example—it’s been a breeding ground for entrepreneurship and community spirit, and all those factors have come together to create a vibrant moment. The question of ‘why should you go now’ was a central part of our decision-making process.

Sarika: Definitely. And Ashlea, we're so fortunate to have you on board to edit 6 of the 12 stories. I'd love to hear your perspective on how the process went for you.

Ashlea: It was a great experience. I wasn’t involved in the initial selection of the 12 destinations, so I didn’t have to sift through that enormous Google doc with hundreds of ideas. Instead, I got the fun task of immediately learning which places made the cut. In some cases, I was revisiting places I thought I knew well, while others were completely new to me—although I might butcher a few pronunciations when we talk about them, despite practicing!

It’s always exciting to uncover new experiences in familiar places. But as Tim mentioned, it’s about finding deeper reasons to visit than just the usual updates, like a new luxury hotel opening. Sometimes it’s more nuanced—like a community-driven tourism initiative or a country taking a step back after the pandemic, recalibrating how it wants to engage with the world and the kind of travelers it wants to attract, as well as how those visitors interact with the local culture and businesses.

That’s always the kind of story that excites me the most.

Tim: I’m curious, Ashlea—was there a place you thought you knew well, but then you discovered a lot more about it while working on this list?

Ashlea: I spent some time in Bangkok, which we used as our home base while traveling around Asia. There’s so much new stuff that has popped up there since the pandemic, especially from young Thai creatives, which is incredibly exciting to see.

I also live near one of the Great Lakes now, and I just finished a two-and-a-half-week road trip, hitting four out of the five. I’ve been reading a lot of Elaine Glusac’s writing—she’s based in Chicago but grew up near Detroit by Lake Michigan. The Great Lakes are the largest freshwater system in the world, yet so many people overlook them. For those of us in the U.S., they’re right on our doorstep, which is amazing. That trip really opened my eyes to all the opportunities around these lakes.

Sarika: Absolutely. I loved how Elaine was able to capture both the natural beauty and cultural significance of the Great Lakes. There are so many distinct towns and cities around them, each with its own personality, even though they’re all part of the same system. I feel like she really did justice to their unique charm, and it definitely gave me the itch to explore them.

Tim: So, are there many opportunities for cruises around the Great Lakes too?

Ashlea: Yes, there are! I just read about the world’s longest cruise, starting in Duluth, Minnesota. It’s a Viking cruise that will go all the way down to Antarctica, and it’s fascinating that it kicks off from the Great Lakes, passing through several of them along the way.

There’s a renewed spotlight on this region that’s long been overlooked, and it’s incredible to see ships equipped with scientific tools, much like those used in Antarctic expeditions, contributing to studies on climate change or examining fish populations in the Great Lakes.

It’s refreshing to witness how research is intertwining with leisure travel in such an organic way.

Sarika: I love how this type of travel allows people to gain a deeper, more meaningful connection with a place, rather than just snapping photos or collecting memories with family and friends. It’s about truly engaging with the destination, which aligns perfectly with what Dinogo values, especially in our Where to Go list.

Which other destinations stood out as particularly exciting for you both to work on?

Tim: I had a great time working on the Transylvania feature in Romania, which was written by Keith Drew, an old colleague of mine from Rough Guides. People mostly know this area from Bram Stoker’s Dracula, but Keith captures a completely different side—one filled with alpine meadows, wildflowers, and centuries-old homes dating back to the 12th century. Plus, there’s an impressive rewilding project happening there too.

They’re working on what’s being called the European Yellowstone, spanning nearly 618,000 acres across the Southern Carpathian Mountains. I had to hide my credit card and passport when I read about it—it sounds like an incredible destination.

Ashlea: That was at the top of my list as well when reading the package. Although I didn’t work on that story, I do have Romanian roots, and my husband and I have been considering a combined trip to Poland and Romania. He’s half Polish and I’m half Romanian, so that feature definitely pushed us closer to maybe booking a trip in 2023.

Sarika: That’s amazing! I think that feature really broke past the usual stereotypes associated with Transylvania. When you think of Transylvania, you often picture dark, ominous mansions thanks to Dracula, but to learn about all the wild spaces and wildlife was an eye-opener for me.

Ashlea: Another piece that really opened my eyes was the one about Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. It’s a place I’ve never visited, and as the writer points out, it’s often overshadowed by its neighbors, Dubai and Abu Dhabi. While it doesn’t boast the same superlatives as those cities, like the tallest buildings or the grandest attractions, it has a quiet, emerging art scene.

Sharjah is quietly becoming a hub for art and architecture, with 2023 marking the 15th Sharjah Biennial and the Sharjah Architecture Triennial, which actually runs events all year long.

You can take architectural tours that cover everything from hidden neighborhoods to sleek, modernist bus stations. I found it all fascinating. And since I have a shopping obsession, I’d love to spend all my money at every souk I can find around the world. That’s definitely at the top of my list too.

Sarika: What I loved about that is, when people think of the UAE, they usually picture the glitzy, extravagant, over-the-top attractions. But Nicola did such an excellent job showcasing some of the more understated yet impressive parts of Sharjah.

She also highlighted the local souks and the more everyday, authentic spots, in addition to the arts and architecture. It gave such a well-rounded perspective on what a visit to an Emirate could truly be like.

Tim: One piece you edited, Ashlea, that really inspired me to visit was the one about Salvador, Brazil. I used to be a music journalist, and the way Kayla Stewart described the samba and the image of the drum team marching through the streets really captured my attention.

It sounds like such a lively, colorful city—one where you can fully immerse yourself in the rhythm and music of the culture.

Ashlea: Exactly. During the pandemic, they launched the City of Music of Bahia in Salvador, a museum offering over 800 hours of music that lets visitors explore various genres, sub-genres, and the Afro-Caribbean roots of the area. It's a treasure trove of rich history and culture, and let's not forget the food.

If you're passionate about music or food, this is a must-visit. Not only does it celebrate the rich Black heritage of Bahia—where 80 percent of the population is Black or mixed race—but you can also experience it through the street names, festivals, and of course, the local cuisine. One dish that caught my attention is moqueca, a traditional seafood stew that sounds absolutely delicious.

Tim: She also mentions shrimp-stuffed black-eyed pea fritters, which sound amazing. On the topic of places where music takes center stage, I recently visited Nashville, where they opened the National Museum of African American Music. The museum has interactive displays that allow you to select an artist and trace their network of influences and the people they've influenced.

I spent hours there, just listening to music and absorbing the history. If you're ever in Nashville, I highly recommend checking it out.

Sarika: I love how specific and immersive that experience sounds. I could totally picture myself visiting the museum in Bahia and diving deep into its cultural significance. It was great that we didn’t just highlight Salvador as a place to engage with Black culture, but also Baltimore, which has some exciting new openings and events that highlight Black heritage.

Ashlea: I worked on the article about Baltimore and Lexington Market, which is the oldest public market in the U.S., operating since 1782. Recently, it underwent a $45 million renovation. With over 40 stalls, half of them are owned by Black entrepreneurs.

The market still offers iconic spots like Faidley Seafood, where you can grab the famous crab cakes, as well as Sunnyside Café, a family-run spot for breakfast, and Black Acres Roastery, a Black-owned coffee shop. The space also features impressive 16-foot-tall murals created by a local artist, along with photographs by Shan Wallace that capture Black food culture. It's an exciting, culturally rich destination in Baltimore.

They've also revamped an arena with a massive $200 million investment, backed by Pharrell and NBA star Kevin Durant. It’s set to reopen just in time for college basketball season, and Bruce Springsteen is even slated to perform there in April.

There are so many great reasons to visit Baltimore right now.

Sarika: Which other places from the list really stood out to you both?

Tim: I really enjoyed Debbie Olson’s article about Prince Edward Island, a Canadian province that’s perfect for hiking and cycling. They’ve recently launched a 435-mile trail that spans the whole island. Debbie does a great job advocating for a slower, more thoughtful approach to travel, encouraging visitors to truly take their time.

I’m also curious to try the local fish and chips, as it was a big part of my childhood diet. According to Debbie, the lobster roll there might just be the best she’s ever had. It sounds like a perfect combination of foodie adventure and outdoor exercise.

Sarika: On the topic of exercise, the route is pretty flat, much like the Camino in Spain, which it’s modeled after. This makes it a more accessible option for a broader range of travelers, and it’s also shorter than the Camino. Plus, for anyone familiar with Anne of Green Gables, it’s a fantastic way to immerse yourself in the world of the book and truly explore PEI.

Tim: You can definitely tackle the route in smaller sections. You could start around Charlottetown, the island’s capital, and cycle or walk out to the Sand Dunes, then visit Prince Edward Island National Park. There are also churches from the 1800s to explore, and some quirky attractions like the world’s largest handheld egg beater!

Sarika: Honestly, seeing the world’s largest egg beater alone is worth the trip. Speaking of strange places, editing this list introduced me to the Museum of Old and New Art in Tasmania. The name might sound simple, but the experience promises to be totally out of the ordinary.

Ashlea: That piece Tim edited was great, but I did a three-week road trip around Tasmania back in 2015, and it’s still hands down the best road trip I’ve ever had. The Museum of Old and New Art, or Mona, has been around just as long and has sparked plenty of controversy. I’ll never forget visiting and seeing one piece that was literally a fishbowl with a live goldfish and a knife inside—no explanation, just that. People were outraged, fearing the goldfish might touch the knife, and that’s exactly the type of reaction Mona aims to provoke. It’s such a thought-provoking place, and Tasmania itself is just pure magic. Honestly, scatter my ashes there, it’s one of the most stunning places on Earth.

Australians often talk about Tasmania like we sometimes joke about parts of the South in the U.S.—which is a shame because they’re missing out on one of the world’s greatest treasures right in their own backyard. But I’ll stop now, it wasn’t my piece.

Tim: Mona’s tagline always cracks me up: drink beer, eat cheese, talk crap about art. Seems like a solid way to spend an afternoon. Surprisingly, very few mainland Australians make the trip, so it’s actually pretty quiet there, right?

Sarika: Mona feels like an experimental playground for both art and culture. It’s irreverent with its art, but also pushes boundaries in terms of food, drink, and the celebration of Indigenous culture. This is especially meaningful given Australia’s complex history. I think it’s crucial for any traveler to engage with and appreciate Indigenous culture when visiting Tasmania.

Tim: Absolutely, and it’s just an hour and 15-minute flight from Melbourne. So it’s really easy to visit if you’re in that part of the world.

So, what kind of places did you stay in when you were there?

Ashlea: Oh, well, we rented a bunch of Airbnbs during our trip, and we pretty much just went with the flow. We took a big loop around the island, starting in Hobart and then heading north along the eastern coastline. One place we stayed was an old pump house, I think it was literally called 'The Pump House.' It had this ridiculously long pier that stretched out over a lake, and when you woke up in the morning, there was a dense fog sitting on the water. It felt like you were in the middle of nowhere—and you kind of were, tucked away in a forest on an island at the bottom of the world.

That sense of isolation was truly amazing. I’d go back there in a heartbeat. Honestly, if you ever go to Australia, make sure you give yourself enough time to visit Tasmania. It’s so worth it that I’d even say: Quit your job if you have to. Just go.

Tim: This was actually written by Laura Redman, our digital content director, and she’s planning to spend a month in Australia this summer. The picture of Wineglass Bay on the Freycinet Peninsula looks absolutely breathtaking.

Ashlea: And it’s such a fantastic hike, too. Nearly half of the island is protected land—either national parks or World Heritage sites—so it’s all pristine and untouched.

One thing to note though: don’t expect to see a lot of Tasmanian devils when you visit. The population has faced significant challenges, particularly with illness, and they’ve been working hard to recover. I had this idea when I first arrived that they’d be everywhere, like there’d be Tasmanian devil crossings on the streets.

Sarika: I honestly thought the same thing, so thanks for clearing that up for me.

To take things up a notch: Dinogo is really focused on helping travelers understand sustainability and how they can be more ethical in their travel choices—thinking carefully about how to use their time and resources when visiting new destinations.

I’m curious if any of the spots on this list caught your attention in terms of how travelers can be more mindful in their journeys—how we can use our wanderlust to plan trips that have a positive impact.

Tim: I think Jenn Flowers’ piece on Ruaha National Park in Tanzania is a great example. A lot of tourists flock to the Serengeti, so by choosing to visit Ruaha, you’re not only avoiding the crowds but also supporting a less-visited region that’s in need of attention.

The article highlights the collaboration between the Wildlife Research Institute and the sDinogoi lodges, where visitors can get hands-on by participating in citizen science projects, assisting with data gathering from camera traps. It’s a brief read, but it provides a unique perspective on how travelers can engage in conservation efforts.

Ashlea: I was really fascinated by Cambutal, Panama. Located at the tip of the Azuero Peninsula, in the Los Santos province—one of the least explored regions of the country—it’s accessible by just one main road that stretches 228 miles south from Panama City.

This small town sits on a stunning volcanic black-sand beach, surrounded by lush waterfalls and jungles. There’s a new initiative called Azuero Adventures, founded by Panama native Brian Goldner. The company employs local guides to showcase the untouched beauty of this area, which is just a stone’s throw from the [Cerro] Hoya National Park.

Hoya National Park spans 80,000 acres and has no direct road access. Visitors are brought in by horseback or 4x4 vehicles, with horseback being the primary mode of transportation. The area is home to endangered species, like the vibrant green macaw and the Azuero spider monkey.

The scale is very small at the moment, which is part of what makes it so special. The goal is to maintain this intimacy while focusing on the community. The idea is to offer a nature-filled experience for mindful travelers, keeping the emphasis on local culture and the environment.

Sarika: Absolutely, I love that idea. It’s so important to consider how your presence as a traveler can have a positive impact on a place. Travel is a two-way street. We often focus on what we, as tourists, get out of the experience. But when you visit places like Cambutal or Hoya National Park, you’re actively contributing to research, supporting local jobs, and helping economies that you don’t normally interact with. Another example of this is Brescia and Bergamo, which were named joint Capitals of Culture in Europe. These cities were hit hard by COVID, and it’s truly inspiring to see them bounce back and thrive again post-pandemic.

Tim: Absolutely, there’s a lot of exciting things happening there, including a new 47-mile cycling route that connects the two cities, stretching past Lake Iseo. Another place that comes to mind is Graz in Austria, which I mentioned earlier. It’s a city full of community spirit, with locals opening up their homes to sell homemade soups, crocheted lampshades, and beverages.

There’s a very modern entrepreneurial vibe in this historic city. It’s a great way for travelers to spend money in a meaningful way by supporting local businesses and getting to know the people. Graz is also home to many social enterprises that help young people find jobs, so there’s a lot of positive things happening there.

Sarika: Wonderful. Let’s shift gears and talk about 2023 travel trends. What’s on your travel agenda for this year, and are you noticing any patterns or shifts in the way people are traveling in 2023?

Ashlea: Given the chaos with Southwest, I predict a massive increase in sales of Apple AirTags. That’s my big forecast for the year.

Tim: For sure. With everything that happened with Southwest, it’s clear that travelers are going to expect disruptions. And with the extreme weather we’ve been seeing here in California, I think it’s safe to say that weather will become an even bigger factor in people’s travel plans moving forward. Our readers seem increasingly interested in more immersive, meaningful travel experiences — travel that gives back and creates opportunities to connect with local communities. I’m currently working on a piece for the magazine in our Dinogo Answers section about how to ensure your travel dollars are spent wisely. This includes choosing locally owned hotels and working with tour operators who hire local people, train them, and empower the communities you’re visiting.

It seems like people are more focused on this kind of travel now than ever before.

I’ve also been a big advocate for traveling during the shoulder season. I’ve taken a few trips recently during the time between Thanksgiving and the holidays. Last December, I visited Fiji, and a couple of years ago I went to Aspen, and both places were surprisingly quiet compared to how crowded they’d be just a few weeks before or after.

Ashlea: With travel fully back in action and the top destinations remaining as popular as ever, I also recommend trying to visit during off-peak times whenever possible. I’m a huge fan of exploring secondary and even tertiary cities. Even if you pick the second or third most popular city in a country, you’ll have an amazing time. And honestly, the experiences you’ll have are often better, simply because fewer tourists go there. It’s a more authentic experience with locals, and you’re less likely to be overwhelmed by crowds of tourists.

Plus, in my experience, locals are often genuinely delighted when you show up in a place that’s usually overlooked. When you visit a lesser-known destination instead of a big name like Abu Dhabi or Dubai, they really appreciate it and love to share the best of what their town has to offer.

Sarika: A few years ago, I had a similar experience when I went to Italy for my cousin’s wedding. I planned a trip that included cities like Bologna, Modena, and Puglia, all during the peak summer season — which, of course, is when tourism in Italy is at its highest.

When I met up with everyone for the wedding, it turned out that most of them had gone to the typical tourist spots like Rome, Venice, and Florence. They all shared stories about waiting in long lines, being unable to see much, and feeling frustrated — especially those traveling with kids. They were stuck in crowds and heat.

Meanwhile, I felt like I had Bologna’s historic university all to myself. It was such a different experience — and like you said, it’s that kind of interaction with the locals who are genuinely happy to see you. They’re more than eager to chat and share their culture, which made the trip even more special.

Ashlea: We had a similar moment when we spent a week in Surabaya, Indonesia. It honestly felt like we were the first Americans to visit in a long time! Everywhere we went, people would ask, 'Did you get lost on the way to Bali?' And we’d be like, no, we came here to see Surabaya! The locals were so excited to meet us, and their enthusiasm was contagious.

It was such a great experience, and it made our trip unforgettable. It made me realize how much more meaningful those off-the-beaten-path destinations can be. I mean, when you hear things like the Louvre is capping attendance at 30,000 people per day, it makes me want to visit places that only get 30,000 visitors in a whole year or even a month!

Sarika: A lot of the places on our list were chosen with intention, focusing on secondary and lesser-known destinations. For example, Ruaha National Park in southern Tanzania is a great choice. While most tourists flock to the north to visit Arusha and the Serengeti, Ruaha offers something entirely different.

While the Serengeti and Arusha are undeniably magical, there's something truly special about Ruaha. Staying at a new lodge like Asilia, where you can actively participate in research, offers a completely different kind of experience than your typical sMytouri. You’re not just being shuttled around for game drives; you're contributing to something meaningful.

Tim: I’ve been seeking out popular spots during off-peak seasons. Last year, I visited Yellowstone National Park in March and Yosemite in February — both during the winter. Yellowstone, for instance, sees over a million visitors in July but only about 70,000 in March, which makes for a completely different atmosphere.

Instead of crowds, I encountered more bison than people. There were no traffic jams or lines of cars waiting for photos. Of course, there were challenges, like some roads being closed, but we were with a guide from Austin Adventures who helped us adapt to the weather. It was a unique, quieter experience, and by traveling out of season, we also supported local towns like Gardner, Montana.

Sarika: Tim, I remember reading one of your Dinogo Answers where you discussed visiting popular places at less busy times of the day. I thought that was a fantastic tip for experiencing iconic natural or man-made wonders without the usual crowds.

Tim: Some of my early mornings in Rome were a result of having a newborn. I was up before the sun most days, so I took full advantage of the quiet hours.

Ashlea: How old is your little one now? Is he two?

Tim: I have one son who’s seven, and my twin boys are three.

Ashlea: My baby will be one in just two weeks, and it’s funny how everything in our lives has changed. Traveling now feels so different because it’s all seen through the lens of parenthood. It’s not just about where we can go without a meltdown, but I find myself choosing places I never would have considered before, just to see how he reacts or how he engages with it.

Tim: The pandemic and having three kids definitely grounded me, but it led to many more road trips within a three-hour radius. I’ve come to appreciate parts of California I might have overlooked, like the coastal towns of Oxnard and Ventura. There's a lot to be said for exploring smaller areas in more depth.

Sarika: Absolutely. The most adventurous trip we took with our daughter, when she was eight months old, was to Mount Kenya. We didn’t attempt the summit—too high for a baby—but we did manage a hiking excursion around some of the lakes. We had porters who helped carry our gear, which made it all possible.

One day we hiked 19 kilometers, mostly uphill. Our guides got lost, so by the time we reached camp, we were all a little cranky. But then I looked at my daughter, and she was just sitting there in her carrier, with a look of pure awe on her face. It completely shifted our perspective.

She wasn’t doing any of the hard work, of course, but her wonder reminded us that we were safe, we were healthy, and that a few extra kilometers didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

We were in one of the most stunning places in the world, and all that mattered was soaking it in. Having her there was a beautiful reminder of why travel is so powerful and how it connects us to the beauty around us.

Ashlea: That’s so heartwarming. My son, Julian, just had his first flight last month, from Minneapolis to San Diego, a four-hour trip. I won’t pretend it was easy—it wasn’t. My husband spent half the flight pacing the galley, trying everything to get him to stop crying.

He’s teething like crazy right now. But once we landed, we headed straight to La Jolla for the most beautiful beach. It was his first time feeling sand beneath him, seeing the ocean, and crawling that distance. Back home in Minnesota, it’s so cold, so he can’t even crawl in the snow. Suddenly, all the challenging moments of the flight just melted away. Watching him crawl across the sand made me realize—he’s hooked on travel now, just like his parents.

Sarika: That sounds wonderful! So, where are you both planning to travel next?

Tim: Next month, I’ll be in Portland, Oregon, for a work meeting. I visited about 10 years ago and biked around breweries in search of sour beers. I'm curious to see how things have changed. Then in March, I’ll be heading to Belize to hopefully kayak along their barrier reef. These days, I try to kayak wherever I go. La Jolla’s sea caves, as well as the ones here in California at Channel Islands National Park, are absolutely spectacular.

You kayak right into these caves. Some are tiny, about the size of a coffin, and you have to pull your way through them, while others are vast, like a cathedral. It’s a mesmerizing experience. I even kayaked through the swamps of Louisiana last year. So yeah, pretty much anywhere there’s water, I’m all about getting in a boat.

Ashlea: I have to mention kayaking at the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore on Lake Superior, especially in the context of our Great Lakes feature. If the weather’s calm, you can explore stunning sea caves and admire the majestic pink sandstone cliffs. It's one of the most beautiful spots.

Tim: Absolutely love it.

Ashlea: For 2023, we’re taking a trip to the Maya Riviera in Mexico for my son's first birthday in a couple of weeks. Instead of giving presents, we’ve decided to start a family tradition: every year, we’ll take a family trip to celebrate his birthday. We’ve picked the first destination starting at age two. If he can point to a place on the map or say where he wants to go, we’ll try to make it happen.

I’m also in the midst of planning a honeymoon + baby trip. My husband and I have been together for 21 years, but we only got married last summer, so we’re figuring out where to go for our honeymoon with our baby. Right now, we’re considering the Faroe Islands or the Scottish Highlands, but we’re also looking at Oman, Lithuania, and Lebanon as options.

If anyone has any great ideas for a honeymoon with a baby, I’d love to hear them!

Sarika: As we wrap up, I just want to thank both of you so much for taking the time to chat about the Where to Go list. As the editor, my job was to think about how to inject as much wanderlust as possible into each of these destinations—places that would inspire readers to immediately turn to their partner and ask, 'Can we go there now?'

You both did such an amazing job bringing that vision to life. I just wanted to take a moment to thank you both for your work and for this wonderful conversation.

Tim: Thanks for having us! I really have to give credit to all the writers too—they crafted some beautiful articles, really digging deep into each location and explaining why it’s worth visiting. Also, going back to what we mentioned earlier, I think one of the best ways to really experience these places is by following that timeless advice of slowing down. Don’t rush. Many of these destinations truly deserve a bit of time and attention. They're not spots you can just breeze through in 24 or 48 hours and expect to really get a sense of them.

Sarika: Definitely. Even some of the bigger cities—take Bangkok, for instance, one of the world’s most visited spots. It’s easy to fall into the trap of the 24-hour or 48-hour trip, but what we hope to show through our article is that there’s so much more to this city beyond the usual attractions.

Ashlea: For anyone planning to visit Thailand, I totally understand the temptation to rush through Bangkok and head straight to the islands or Chiang Mai, but don’t make that mistake. If you only give Bangkok a quick 24 or 48 hours, you’ll miss out on everything that makes it special. You’ll likely spend all your time stuck in traffic, and you won’t get a real feel for the city. It truly deserves more of your time.

Bangkok deserves your love and attention. It has so much to offer and deserves the chance to show off its incredible charm. I say this as someone who lived there and returns whenever I can. Kathryn Romyn, the writer behind our Bangkok piece, did an incredible job capturing this, especially the energy of the young Thai people who are opening cafés, galleries, bars, and restaurants, making the city a world-class destination all on its own.

My suggestion is to spend one week in Bangkok, then head to the Thai Islands for the second week. That’s the best way to experience both.

Sarika: Sounds amazing! How can people find both of you and discover more about all the incredible work you're doing?

Tim: If you're looking to connect with me, I’m on Instagram and LinkedIn. Just search for Tim Chester—it’s easy to find.

Ashlea: I’m also on Instagram as Ashlea Halpern. I used to post much more often, but now with a baby, I try not to flood people’s feeds with too many baby pictures.

Sarika: I think baby photos are always welcome, even if they’re unsolicited!

Ashlea: I used to share photos of my chihuahua. Now, it’s all about the baby.

Sarika: Thank you both so much! This has been a wonderful discussion, and I look forward to collaborating again.

Tim: Thanks, I appreciate it.

Ashlea: Thank you! It was a pleasure working with you both. Have a great evening and a good day ahead. Goodbye!

OUTRO

Thanks for tuning in, everyone! If you’d like to hear more from me, follow me on Instagram at @sarika008. And don’t forget to check out Ashlea’s site, minnevangelist.com. We’ll provide links to everything—including our Where to Go in 2023 list—in the show notes.

This season, we also want to hear from you! Got a travel dilemma, topic, or trend you want us to dive into? Head over to Dinogo.com/survey or drop us a line at [email protected] to let us know what’s on your mind.

If you enjoyed today’s adventure, we’d love for you to return for more incredible stories. Subscribe to Unpacked on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your go-to podcast platform. Don’t forget to rate and review—it helps other travelers discover the show.

This has been Unpacked, brought to you by Dinogo Media. Produced by Aislyn Greene and Nikki Galteland. Music by Chris Colin.

And always remember: The world is complex. We’re here to help you unpack it.