S1, E5: Unveiling the Secrets of Accessible Travel

Join us every other Thursday on our podcast, Unpacked by Dinogo, where we dive deep into the world of ethical travel, exploring it with a lighthearted, accessible approach. We’ll help you navigate dilemmas like whether it’s okay to swim with dolphins despite knowing you shouldn’t ride elephants or how to make your travel more eco-friendly with zero-waste practices. Catch up with the transcript from our August 11 episode.

Transcript

Christine Grassman: For me, accessible travel is about enjoying a trip without worrying about barriers. It’s about having the freedom to participate in activities and experiences without hesitation, whether that’s touring a museum or hiking a mountain—whatever you want to do, no one should stop you.

Kevin Andrews: Accessibility is different for everyone, and it's important to approach it with patience and understanding. For example, I need to be able to feel and interact with things in a tactile way to fully enjoy my experiences. Sometimes, making a place accessible takes a little creativity, effort, and a good conversation to make it work.

Emily Ladau: For me, accessible travel goes beyond just being able to physically move through a space, although that’s obviously essential as a wheelchair user. It’s about truly feeling that I belong, that I’m welcome wherever I am.

Qudsiya Naqui, host: Welcome to Unpacked by Dinogo. I’m your host, Qudsiya Naqui, and in today’s episode, we’re diving into the big question: How do we make travel accessible? You’ve just heard from three travelers with disabilities—Christine Grassman, Kevin Andrews, and Emily Ladau—who shared their perspectives on what accessible travel looks like. It’s about designing physical spaces that cater to both the body and the mind—whether that means ramps, Braille menus at restaurants, sign language interpreters at shows, or simply meeting someone who is open to learning new ways of understanding the world.

In this episode, we’ll explore the term “access” in depth—specifically, what it means for disabled individuals as they navigate their communities, explore nature, and travel across the globe.

This topic isn’t new to me. I host a podcast called Down to the Struts, where we delve into disability, design, and intersectionality. I engage with experts across a range of fields—education, the arts, migration, voting rights, the legal system, and more—to discuss issues surrounding access and inclusion.

The World Health Organization reports that around 1 billion people worldwide live with some form of disability. The U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities outlines the rights of disabled people globally, which include the right to live independently, move freely, and participate fully in cultural activities, leisure, sports, and community life.

Even though these rights exist, we still live in a world largely built without considering the needs of disabled individuals. Access remains out of reach for many, especially when it comes to leaving the comfort of our homes and navigating the world around us.

As someone who is blind, I’ve encountered these travel barriers myself. Let me share a moment from a story I created and performed with Story District in Washington, D.C., back in March 2020, about the challenges of being blind in an airport:

“Airports can be a nightmare sometimes, right? Flight delays, going through TSA, but being blind in an airport? That adds a whole other layer of difficulty.”

“It’s true, there’s been some positive change in terms of accessibility for blind people: AI technology, text-to-speech, and yes, even self-driving cars are on the horizon.”

“But airports are still falling behind. As blind individuals, we often find ourselves dealing with well-intentioned staff who want to help, but don’t always ask us what we actually need. Take one time, for instance: I got into a heated argument with an airport attendant who insisted I sit in a wheelchair, despite my firm refusal. I kept telling him, that’s not the best way to get me to my gate.”

This is just one example of the many challenges and misunderstandings I’ve encountered as a disabled traveler, and it mirrors experiences shared within the disability community. But there’s so much we can do to transform the systems, structures, and mindsets that have created these barriers, separating disabled people from the world around them.

Next, we’ll hear from Bani Amor, a writer who explores the intersections of race, place, and power. Bani sheds light on the unique complexities disabled people of color face when they attempt to leave their homes and travel.

Bani Amor: I’m Bani Amor, and I use they/them pronouns. Right now, I’m in Queens, on the traditional lands of the Matinecock, Canarsie, and Munsee Lenape peoples. I’ve always been a writer, always a traveler since my youth. Over time, I brought those passions together into a career that matches my nomadic lifestyle.

Qudsiya: For Bani, travel means any form of movement. Any type of migration.

Bani: We are all on the move, constantly. Many of us have travel embedded in our very DNA, in more ways than one. I don’t just see travel as something done for leisure; when we limit the conversation to that narrow definition, we miss out on a broader discussion about travel culture, power dynamics, and the complex forces that intersect with one another.

Qudsiya: I asked Bani how the design of physical spaces impacts disabled travelers.

Bani: Many of us live in buildings that are completely inaccessible. How are you supposed to leave your home? In my building, there are two steps to get in and out, and with a wheelchair, that’s simply impossible. It’s a real struggle.

In a way, even just stepping outside our front doors is a political act, because so often we physically can’t do it. So think about how challenging it is to leave the state, let alone the country, or travel long distances.

Qudsiya: Bani went on to describe the challenges disabled people face once they’ve managed to overcome the initial hurdle of getting out of their homes and into their communities, and the further barriers when trying to travel to places that may require a flight or a train ride.

Bani: My train station is just two blocks away, but it has no elevator. Getting to Manhattan is as complicated as getting anywhere else in New York City. Air travel is especially tough for many disabled individuals, particularly wheelchair users. It’s a huge issue, with airlines frequently damaging wheelchairs and the complicated rules surrounding disabled people’s ability to deplane after a flight.

These dehumanizing experiences can even lead to death. It’s something that’s documented and well-known. For me, air travel is an agonizing ordeal that requires excessive planning, and the challenges don’t stop once I get to the airport.

Qudsiya: The barriers Bani describes in accessible travel have very real, and often dangerous, consequences for disabled people. For example, according to a Washington Post report, the largest U.S. airlines damaged about 29 wheelchairs every day in 2019, the first full year of reporting to the government. Wheelchairs are highly specialized and personalized devices, and a broken wheelchair can leave someone stranded, with no mobility, for months while waiting for a repair or replacement—plus the added stress of dealing with high costs, depending on insurance. If your wheelchair is broken during a flight, you could find yourself immobilized with no backup plan.

Bani also highlighted the social and economic barriers disabled travelers, particularly disabled people of color, face on a regular basis.

Bani: When it comes to affordability, being a BIPOC adds an additional layer of difficulty. Disability often leads to financial hardship, so many of us find ourselves struggling with poverty.

Many of us rely on social services, especially those with physical disabilities, and we often lack the necessary support. Affordability is a massive barrier—who can take time off work when they can’t afford it? A lot of people on Medicaid, SSI, or other social services can’t even earn above a certain income, which further limits their options.

You’re limited to such a small amount of support, and if you earn money or do anything to improve your situation, you risk losing your insurance. Even if you manage to get some funding, you’re not supposed to make enough to actually travel.

Qudsiya: On top of these financial struggles, there are the added complexities of being both disabled and a person of color—especially Black and Indigenous—while traveling.

Bani: When you’re disabled, you might not communicate the way others expect, and that can be seen as strange. Maybe you’re nonverbal, or perhaps the way people approach social interactions comes from an able-bodied perspective. These small things can really amplify the way Black and Indigenous people of color are policed.

You’re already dealing with discrimination at borders, and it only gets worse when you try to enter new places. There are countless stories of Latinx individuals, even with citizenship, being told at the border, “We don’t have Black people in Mexico,” while friends of the same racial background are allowed through with no issues—all because they have a U.S. passport.

When I talk about crossing borders and entering and leaving countries, that’s where power is really concentrated and visible. You can clearly see who’s in which line, and whose passport grants them privileges. These power dynamics and systemic oppressions collide and create additional barriers to access—just trying to leave can be difficult, and even once you do, your experience is shaped by all of those layers of discrimination.

Qudsiya: When it comes to access, information is key—knowing what barriers you might face allows you to prepare and come up with solutions in advance. Maayan Ziv explains how the lack of information about accessibility has often held her back from fully engaging with the world. Maayan is the founder and CEO of AccessNow, an app that helps people share vital details about the accessibility features of places like restaurants, hotels, museums, and other global destinations.

Maayan: Yes, I live in Toronto, where I’ve spent most of my life. I’m a power wheelchair user, and I’ve always had a passion for travel—adventurous by nature, always eager to explore new places.

Whenever I visit a new place, whether it’s nearby or across the globe, I consistently face barriers just trying to access the space with my wheelchair. At the time, I was pursuing a master’s in digital media, and I became obsessed with this problem in my life. I kept thinking, “Why isn’t there more information available for people with disabilities?”

You can easily find details about business hours, menus, and reviews for almost everything, but when it comes to accessibility information, that’s a whole different story. It’s incredibly hard to find.

Qudsiya: As a blind person, I often struggle to find the accessibility details I need to plan a new experience. For instance, performance venues often hide information about audio descriptions deep within their websites, and it’s not always clear whether a bike rental shop offers tandem bicycles for rent.

But Maayan came up with a brilliant solution to these kinds of challenges, which we’ll discuss shortly.

Another key element of travel, and overall well-being, is the ability to connect with the natural world. As someone who loves running, tandem cycling, and rock climbing, this form of access holds a special place in my heart.

That’s why I wanted to talk to Erika Rivers. Erika is the executive director of Wilderness Inquiry, a nonprofit that provides outdoor adventure opportunities for people of all ages, backgrounds, and abilities.

Erika Rivers: I’m Erika Rivers. My love for the outdoors started when I was very young, and later in life, I became a conservation biologist. Working for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, I realized that people only protect what they feel connected to. They only care about the things they truly engage with. This shift in perspective led me to refocus my work on creating meaningful connections between people and nature.

Qudsiya: During her journey to lead Wilderness Inquiry, Erika was deeply moved by the disparities in who gets to experience nature and the overwhelming evidence that access to the outdoors benefits everyone.

Erika: What truly deepened my passion for connecting people with nature is realizing in recent years that there’s a social justice element to this work. Bringing people into the outdoors is about more than just recreation—it’s about equity.

There are now over 400 empirical studies demonstrating the clear benefits of outdoor recreation on health, wellness, and community connections. It's clear: spending time outdoors improves people's lives in many ways. When people lack equitable access to nature, the consequences are felt in the quality of their lives—this is a social justice issue.

Qudsiya: Even with the barriers to access we’ve discussed, there are solutions that can make travel easier and more equitable for disabled people. Focusing on access benefits not just those of us with disabilities, but nondisabled people as well.

I asked Bani Amor for their perspective on how we can make travel more accessible, and they highlighted some key questions we should consider when designing physical spaces or experiences to ensure we are prioritizing access.

Bani: In every space you create, the first question should be: Can everyone get in? On all of your social media, can everyone read or hear what you’re sharing? We need image descriptions everywhere, and accessibility information on all platforms.

If these things aren't part of your thinking, just keep them in the back of your mind: ‘There should be an elevator at this train station. There should be a ramp here. If the bathrooms aren’t accessible at this event, can we bring in a porta-potty?’ If you're organizing a meetup, can everyone enter the restaurant? That’s a huge consideration. If not, raise the issue with the owners, and remember that you can report ADA violations here in the U.S. Knowing how to do this is crucial—it helps ensure that spaces improve so that we can access them.

Qudsiya: Bani explains how providing better access for others can lead to unexpected advantages for everyone, even when you don’t expect it.

Bani: The beauty of accessibility is that it benefits everyone. I’m not hard of hearing or deaf, but I still use captions and subtitles for everything because it helps me. And that’s just one example. Elderly people, pregnant people—you never know what someone is dealing with. A ramp isn’t just useful for people in wheelchairs, it’s helpful for anyone. We all get tired. There should be no shame in taking an elevator instead of the stairs.

Qudsiya: Bani also shares some fantastic advice on how to make events more accessible.

Bani: Whether the event is virtual or in person, it's critical to include accessibility details on your website or event page. We need to be able to ask, ‘Does this event provide ASL?’

For outdoor events, consider the ground level—will the path from the main area to the campsite be even? Are there any steps leading into the restroom? Don’t make assumptions about what accessibility means, and avoid presuming what disabled people need when it comes to accommodations.

Many people aren't fully aware of the specific needs—like how much space a person in a wheelchair requires to turn around, which can be even more important for power wheelchair users.

It’s essential to hire someone with lived experience. Having a disabled person on your team or contracting someone to provide training on accessibility is invaluable. I’m disabled in certain ways, but that doesn’t mean I understand the needs of everyone, and you’re always learning.

For those without disabilities, it’s essential to ask about accessibility. Even if you don’t personally need accommodations, when visiting a hotel, restaurant, or attending an event, simply ask, ‘Do you provide this or that?’ and offer suggestions like, ‘It would be helpful if you had this.’

Qudsiya: Earlier, I mentioned Maayan Ziv's app as a response to the challenges Bani spoke about. I asked her how the app works and how it's helped raise awareness around accessibility.

Maayan: AccessNow is an app and website that lets anyone search for places—whether it's a restaurant, a store, a hotel, or a park—and get detailed accessibility information about that space. We use tags to highlight features like automatic doors, elevators, ramps, as well as details about lighting and sound levels, availability of digital menus or Braille options, and whether a guide dog is welcomed or asked to leave.

The app reflects the needs and feedback of people who have shared their experiences and preferences. The strength of AccessNow lies in the collective knowledge and contributions of its users.

Qudsiya: As AccessNow continues to expand its user base, Maayan has noticed some interesting new trends in how the app is being used, and what that means for how we think about accessibility and disability.

Maayan: The idea for AccessNow came from my own experience as a wheelchair user. Most of the app's users are people with disabilities or their families, friends, and colleagues. However, we've increasingly heard from individuals without disabilities, who are realizing how accessibility affects their own lives in ways they hadn’t considered before.

For instance, more and more parents with strollers are reaching out, noting that public transportation systems, like subways or trains, aren’t fully accessible. They hadn't thought about accessibility before, but now they’re seeing how it impacts them. Similarly, people recovering from temporary injuries, using crutches or scooters, are also seeking out accessible features in their environments that are hard to come by.

I think the idea of separating disabled from nondisabled is something we actively try to challenge. Whether you have a disability now or will have one in the future, everyone benefits from accessible spaces because accessibility fosters inclusive experiences for all.

Qudsiya: Similarly, Erika Rivers and Wilderness Inquiry have built a platform that places access at its foundation. I asked Erika about how Wilderness Inquiry provides opportunities for people with disabilities to connect with nature.

Erika: We believe that most outdoor spaces can be made accessible with the right people, support systems, and equipment. Our approach centers on the 'seven steps of inclusive recreation.' The first step is to begin by respecting and recognizing the dignity of each person. We aim to approach every program by viewing the whole person, considering their abilities, and finding ways for them to contribute meaningfully to the group experience in nature.

Our second key principle is maintaining open communication throughout the entire process. We ensure trips are well-coordinated by holding pre-trip calls to understand everyone's abilities, needs, and expectations. This way, we can plan trips that cater to all participants. Additionally, while we're out in the field, we check in regularly with group members to ensure they’re having the best possible experience and that their expectations are being met consistently.

Qudsiya: To wrap up our conversations, I asked Maayan, Erika, and Bani to share their vision for a fully accessible world. Here’s Maayan discussing the practical and business reasons for designing with accessibility in mind.

Maayan: For too long, accessibility has been treated as an afterthought, seen as a niche issue. Businesses often overlook it, thinking, 'How many disabled people will really come?' I've even heard business owners say, 'We never bothered making our restaurant accessible because we don’t get disabled customers.'

The reality is, recognizing the value of accessibility is not just a moral choice but a profitable one. By making a space accessible, you open your doors to a massive market—millions of people with disabilities who are currently excluded. We’re talking about roughly 20 percent of the population. Our mission is to raise awareness among business owners, particularly in the travel industry, to ensure that people with disabilities have the same rights to travel as anyone else.

Travel is one of the most enriching experiences a person can have. Our goal is to ensure that whether or not you have a disability, you can enjoy the same access to transportation, amenities, and experiences. We work closely with leaders in the travel sector, business owners, and hospitality providers to make it clear that creating accessible spaces is not only the right thing to do but also a smart economic move—accessibility can tap into a $13 trillion annual disposable income from the disability community.

Qudsiya: Erika believes that the natural world is full of possibilities, often right in our own backyards.

Erika: What I see in the outdoor recreation system is that, in places like state and national parks, only certain parts are accessible. You might have an accessible bathroom, a parking lot, or maybe a few miles of trail. I envision a world where, within 50 miles of your home, there are at least 72 hours of accessible recreational activities available. Imagine that!

Imagine being able to go to a wild space just 50 miles from your home and spend 72 hours there, knowing the campsite is accessible, the restroom facilities are accessible, you can reach the river via an accessible kayak launch, and you can explore the exhibits at the visitor’s center. Wouldn’t that be amazing?

I believe creating this vision takes a commitment from society as a whole to make these spaces not just accessible but consistently accessible.

Qudsiya: Lastly, Bani reminds us that we don’t need to look far to start considering how to make spaces accessible.

Bani: Increasing access and equality for marginalized communities, especially when it comes to movement and travel, has to start at home. We shouldn’t wait until we leave our house to consider these issues. Traveling, particularly for disabled individuals, is incredibly complex and requires a lot of planning. It’s something that needs to be addressed from the very beginning.

Qudsiya: Do you remember Kevin and Emily, the disabled travelers we heard about earlier? I want to leave you with their final thoughts on what access and travel really mean.

Kevin: People’s experiences with disability vary greatly, from complete lack of experience to full understanding. Add to that the complexity of cultural differences, language barriers, and diverse backgrounds, and you get a rich intersection of challenges. But the key is meeting people where they are and connecting on a human level. For example, as a blind person, I’m still a person with hopes, dreams, and a job. When people see me as a whole person, it creates a real connection.

Emily: Stairs are an obvious challenge, but what’s often more problematic is the unwelcoming attitudes I face. It’s immediately clear when someone doesn’t want me in their space or when locals are uncomfortable with my presence. I believe that by shifting how people perceive disability, educating others about it, and embracing it as part of who someone is, we can make travel more inclusive. This change could transform the travel industry and, ultimately, create a more accessible world for everyone.

Qudsiya: We’ve gained so much insight from the wisdom shared by Christine, Kevin, Emily, Bani, Maayan, and Erika on the topic of access and its many layers. Here are some key takeaways:

Key Insight #1

Keep in mind that factors like race, location, and power dynamics influence access, particularly for disabled people of color. It’s essential to be aware of this as you meet individuals from diverse backgrounds and abilities during your travels.

Key Insight #2

Engaging in open conversations and practicing kindness are key to fostering a better understanding of the access needs of others around us.

Key Insight #3

Access goes beyond just altering physical spaces—it’s about creating environments where disabled individuals feel valued and included.

Key Insight #4

Listen to disabled individuals, as they are the true experts on their own needs and experiences. Challenge your assumptions about what is possible when we work to make spaces more accessible.

Key Insight #5

Become a champion for accessibility. When you visit new places or participate in events, inquire about the available accessibility features. If you notice a lack of ramps or other necessary accommodations, push for change. You can also report your findings using the AccessNow app.

Key Insight #6

Expand your understanding of disability by engaging with media and culture. The Disability Visibility Project, founded by Alice Wong, offers a wealth of resources. Visit disabilityvisibilityproject.org for blog posts and interviews with members of the disability community.

Thank you for tuning into this episode of Unpacked. For more about me and the Down to the Struts team, head to downtothestruts.com. Be sure to check out the show notes for links to our guests' work and learn more about their impactful contributions.

A special thank you to Story District in Washington, D.C. for allowing us to feature audio from their March 2020 show, 'She Comes First.' To discover more about Story District, visit storydistrict.org.

Want more? Head over to Dinogo.com, and don’t forget to follow Unpacked on Instagram and Twitter. The magazine’s handle is @Dinogomedia. If you enjoyed today’s episode, I’d love for you to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. And please leave a review—it helps other listeners find the show.

You've been listening to Unpacked, a production from Dinogo Media and Boom Integrated. This episode was produced by Aislyn Greene, Adrien Glover, and Robin Lai, with postproduction handled by Jenn Grossman and Clint Rhoades from John Marshall Media. Original music composed by Alan Carrescia.

And don’t forget: The world may be complex, but traveling ethically doesn't have to be.